Civil Politics Discussion

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punisherthunder
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Civil Politics Discussion

Postby punisherthunder » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:41 pm

In an attempt to encourage participation and healthy discourse, this is to be a probationary thread on having a friendly and civil discussion about politics of any kind. I believe we can gain incredible insights by learning about the concerns and opinions of varying political views. Again, this is all probationary and I will heavily moderate this thread. If posts become degenerative or vile, the posts will be deleted and the thread will end.


To kick this all off, in light of the South Carolina primary results and the primary results thus far, I believe Donald Trump has the best chance to win the Presidency of the United States. Plus his wife Melania looks gorgeous in her sable and chinchilla furs too :D
FURS 4 LIFE

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neoJaguar
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Re: Civil Politics Discussion

Postby neoJaguar » Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:35 pm

dunno how I feel about this.. this is a very touchy subject that can lead bad very quickly.

if it can be civil then maybe... but it never can.

will give this some thought and touch more when I'm not posting from my iPhone

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punisherthunder
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Re: Civil Politics Discussion

Postby punisherthunder » Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:11 pm

neoJaguar wrote:dunno how I feel about this.. this is a very touchy subject that can lead bad very quickly.

if it can be civil then maybe... but it never can.

will give this some thought and touch more when I'm not posting from my iPhone



I gotcha. Just an idea to try and encourage some folks to post more?
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AKcoyote
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Re: Civil Politics Discussion

Postby AKcoyote » Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:35 pm

punisherthunder wrote:I gotcha. Just an idea to try and encourage some folks to post more?
While the idea is great (get members posting more), political "discussion" almost destroyed this site several years ago.

Political themed posts tend to draw very angry responses from those who do not share the posters political views. When politics is the subject, civil discussion seldom occurs. However, we can try it and see what results.

When posting in this thread, keep in mind the admins will be watching closely and will terminate the discussion if civility does not prevail.


An observation:
To me, it seems the popularity of both Bernie Sanders & Donald Trump speaks to people being fed-up with politics as usual and the lack of any meaningful legislation out of Congress in the past 10 years.
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. ~Thomas Jefferson
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is a knowledge of our own ignorance. ~Benjamin Franklin

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punisherthunder
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Re: Civil Politics Discussion

Postby punisherthunder » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:24 pm

AKcoyote wrote:
punisherthunder wrote:I gotcha. Just an idea to try and encourage some folks to post more?
While the idea is great (get members posting more), political "discussion" almost destroyed this site several years ago.

Political themed posts tend to draw very angry responses from those who do not share the posters political views. When politics is the subject, civil discussion seldom occurs. However, we can try it and see what results.

When posting in this thread, keep in mind the admins will be watching closely and will terminate the discussion if civility does not prevail.


An observation:
To me, it seems the popularity of both Bernie Sanders & Donald Trump speaks to people being fed-up with politics as usual and the lack of any meaningful legislation out of Congress in the past 10 years.



If Bernie Sanders could pull off free college tuition that would be nice as I could get my Masters and my wife her Phd.
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Fox
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Re: Civil Politics Discussion

Postby Fox » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:16 am

AKcoyote wrote:When politics is the subject, civil discussion seldom occurs.


http://www.reasonstovotetrump.com/
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"fur coat in saks....wow, it was an orgasm for our fingers!"
-kait649 from webshots

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neoJaguar
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Re: Civil Politics Discussion

Postby neoJaguar » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:58 am

Fox wrote:
AKcoyote wrote:When politics is the subject, civil discussion seldom occurs.


http://www.reasonstovotetrump.com/


I like this.

Foxy

Re: Civil Politics Discussion

Postby Foxy » Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:14 am

Fox wrote:
AKcoyote wrote:When politics is the subject, civil discussion seldom occurs.


http://www.reasonstovotetrump.com/


Very cute, Fox. I do understand the appeal of Trump. The GOP is a lost puppy right now and conservative voters are hungry for something different. Unfortunately the choices seem to be run through the establishment or self fund, so only people with Trump levels of money can run on the anti-establishment ticket. Personally I think he is a bit of a lunatic.

As for Sanders: forget economics 101, the man needs to revisit basic mathematics. Anyone who says that Dead Weight Loses and Crowding Out are a "capitalist fiction" need to get off their high horse. Any economist who says that is being paid to lie.

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Re: Civil Politics Discussion

Postby TiffanyFox » Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:41 am

As for Sanders: forget economics 101, the man needs to revisit basic mathematics. Anyone who says that Dead Weight Loses and Crowding Out are a "capitalist fiction" need to get off their high horse. Any economist who says that is being paid to lie.


Feel free to back up your statements with facts.

Foxy

Re: Civil Politics Discussion

Postby Foxy » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:07 pm

TiffanyFox wrote:
As for Sanders: forget economics 101, the man needs to revisit basic mathematics. Anyone who says that Dead Weight Loses and Crowding Out are a "capitalist fiction" need to get off their high horse. Any economist who says that is being paid to lie.


Feel free to back up your statements with facts.


Gladly. For the sake of ethos my degree is in mathematical economics. I know where of I speak.

Lets look at free college tuition. The projected enrollment rate for 18-24 year olds in 2020 is 30 million (1). Average in state tuition for state schools is $9410 per year (2). That comes to ~2.83 TRILLION dollars PER YEAR, and that is just for students out of high school and I was being generous with the estimates.. There are two options to pay for it: liquid 17% of the GDP per year or borrow.

Borrowing: We have one heck of an intertemporal accounting problem, which is to say we are borrowing out of our children's children's pockets. One can argue that it is worth the additional borrowing. Consider that college enrollment is higher than ever and yet we have a massive structural unemployment problem (structural unemployment is a mismatch between the skills supplied and demanded in the labor market). The fact is we are labor starved and the idea that going to a four year university is a a recipe for success is a myth. We are much better off subsidizing a revamp of our community college, trade school, and job training programs to include more technological and engineering skills. Better yet we need to rearrange our public school funding structure, update the curriculum, raise the standards for public school teachers and pay them more.

Liquidating GDP: The United States military spending is 3.5% of gdp (3), so ceasing all military spending and using it on college tuition does not even come close to covering the cost. Oil and natural gas mining is 2.6% (4, cont.), manufacturing is 12.1%, IT and broadcast is 4.8%. The list goes on and you can look for yourself. So, what are you going to cut? Who has to lose their job and what services are we going to forgo for a program that won't address the employment problem?

I am not a libertarian full blown laizze-faire capitalist. We need social services, we NEED education reform, and we have an economic mobility problem that is frankly disgusting. BUT we also have an astronomical debt that is growing all the time, a bloated budget, and a lot of really awful welfare policies that simply are not doing the job. We need to be thoughtful in the policies we enact. They need to be designed to specifically address the problems we are facing and we need to be ever thinking of unintended consequences. As an economist I am here to tell you that Sanders does not have these things in mind. He is standing on ideology and making promises he can't deliver on. I believe he means well. He is too big for his britches.




sources:
(1) http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2011/2011026.pdf
(2) http://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/c ... leId=10064
(3) http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS
(4) http://www.bea.gov/iTable/iTable.cfm?Re ... 4=a&5102=5


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