New Fur Marketplace App

[furwrx]

Hi all,

I wanted to gain some feedback from the community on an app I am currently working on with some local furriers. We are creating an exclusive fur marketplace application that is geared toward peer to peer swapping and commerce. All furs would be shipped to a clearing house for inspection and authentication and then processed and sent to both parties after successful authentication.

The main idea is to promote swapping instead of monetary transactions. Although there still are traditional buy and sell options. The idea is rather fresh and I wanted to gain some feedback, any and all is welcome -> even ideas to aid in the design / business logic process. Hope to hear from some of the community soon.

Best,

M

[natashainfurs]

It would be a pleasure if your application was available in my country (Argentina), unfortunately we don't have many furs sales pages and many times it's an odyssey trying to get furs, it would also be great if people from all over the world could come together and create a small community, It occurs to me that your application should have a points system, for example when you buy a fur you add points that later with those points you can exchange for vouchers or discounts and thus you do not spend a lot of money 

Edited September 3, 2023 by natashainfurs

[Guest]

I'm assuming there will be a service fee involved; if that is the case what is the incentive for using the app when transaction costs are lower in a normal third party sale?

[Panther10]

While swapping a used fur sounds good on paper, I’ve received enough clunkers through eBay that are advertised as being in like new condition but in actuality they are either completely damaged upon delivery or they reek of cigarettes smoke. Sometimes it’s a minor infraction due to the measurements being off and the coat doesn’t actually fit me. 
 
Because of these types of incidents, I would be less inclined to enter into a swap arrangement if I were to end up on the receiving end of a bad transaction, knowing I also had a better quality coat to send away

[FurSwede]

Sorry to say but this is not something I would consider using. 

[Charfur]

I think this will be a little more difficult then you think, so you have to pay for the furrier for the work (that is the appraisal), in addition the coat has to be shipped to the clearing house and from the clearing house to the new owner. Probably the app likes to receive a transaction fee. The shipment might be eligible to import taxes, the same for the other coat as well. This can become a rather expensive swap.

So let's say a have a $1000 mink coat i like to swap, my rough guess would be $150 on shipment expenses, depending where the coat comes from I am paying 22% VAT and 0% import taxes (which is probably incorrect and could be more), in total i am paying $370 for getting something of equal value. This is in case the app and the appraisal are free and with no return options taken into account.

[furwrx]

Thank you all for the feedback! These are definitely valid points to consider. The business logic isn't completely vetted, so I will take these into consideration as I move forward. Appreciate the commentary!!

[furwrx]

On 9/7/2023 at 12:20 PM, SlyRoxy said:

I'm assuming there will be a service fee involved; if that is the case what is the incentive for using the app when transaction costs are lower in a normal third party sale?

What would incentivize you to use the app? Are there any features that would get you on the platform?

There are still traditional buy and sell options for items that are listed. The focus is on swapping.

Edited September 10, 2023 by furwrx

[furwrx]

On 9/7/2023 at 2:48 PM, Panther10 said:

While swapping a used fur sounds good on paper, I’ve received enough clunkers through eBay that are advertised as being in like new condition but in actuality they are either completely damaged upon delivery or they reek of cigarettes smoke. Sometimes it’s a minor infraction due to the measurements being off and the coat doesn’t actually fit me. 
 
Because of these types of incidents, I would be less inclined to enter into a swap arrangement if I were to end up on the receiving end of a bad transaction, knowing I also had a better quality coat to send away

I see! so guarantee of authenticity and condition is key in the agreement portion, and that would be the in app standard after inspection. Any infractions would be reported to the swapping agents and they can choose whether to accept or deny the transaction.

[furwrx]

22 hours ago, Charfur said:

I think this will be a little more difficult then you think, so you have to pay for the furrier for the work (that is the appraisal), in addition the coat has to be shipped to the clearing house and from the clearing house to the new owner. Probably the app likes to receive a transaction fee. The shipment might be eligible to import taxes, the same for the other coat as well. This can become a rather expensive swap.

So let's say a have a $1000 mink coat i like to swap, my rough guess would be $150 on shipment expenses, depending where the coat comes from I am paying 22% VAT and 0% import taxes (which is probably incorrect and could be more), in total i am paying $370 for getting something of equal value. This is in case the app and the appraisal are free and with no return options taken into account.

In the backend, I have access to shipping networks that will fulfill the transactions for a fraction of standard pricing. I am not so worried about fulfillment! I understand this point tho. I will have to clarify all costs associated to the swap up front in ToS or Ts&Cs.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, furwrx said:

What would incentivize you to use the app? Are there any features that would get you on the platform?

There are still traditional buy and sell options for items that are listed. The focus is on swapping.

No, not really. This just sounds like a premium middleman service with extra steps. I also seriously doubt your claim that you would be able to handle the logistics at the fraction of the cost. Even if you do have such a network, a single swap involves four shipping transactions. Plus all of overhead with the appraisal service, insurance and import costs, etc. I think you should seriously consider making this more lean.

Edit: I should clarify my issue is with the value proposition. I refuse to believe you aren't going to pass the costs on to the user and that increased transaction cost is money I could put towards just buying a fur instead. So again, and I am asking YOU this question, what is the incentive to forgo that extra fur budget to use your service?

Edited September 10, 2023 by SlyRoxy

[Panther10]

Yeah no offense but this sounds like a flight of fancy to me. You make it sound like the vintage fur industry is as robust a market as Amazon, DoorDash or eBay is and can support the same customer base and business model but frankly it’s not. Most of the people who are looking to sell their used coats on a place like eBay do so because the furs that they own were bequeathed to them by a member of their family and they have no use or need for it, not because they want a different fur. And more often those who are really into fur would rather find something new vs vintage because it is guaranteed to last longer if it’s well maintained and taken care of. I think our hobby is a little too niche for a giant operation like the one you are trying to coordinate. Btw, attempting to start or run a huge enterprise by first going to the community to workshop ideas without having your own plan in place first is a huge red flag. I would never shop there if the guy in charge got all of his advice from complete randos. You sound like you don’t even have a business degree much less a business plan

Edited September 10, 2023 by Panther10

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Panther10 said:

Yeah no offense but this sounds like a flight of fancy to me. You make it sound like the vintage fur industry is as robust a market as Amazon, DoorDash or eBay is and can support the same customer base and business model but frankly it’s not. Most of the people who are looking to sell their used coats on a place like eBay do so because the furs that they own were bequeathed to them by a member of their family and they have no use or need for it, not because they want a different fur. And more often those who are really into fur would rather find something new vs vintage because it is guaranteed to last longer if it’s well maintained and taken care of. I think our hobby is a little too niche for a giant operation like the one you are trying to coordinate. Btw, attempting to start or run a huge enterprise by first going to the community to workshop ideas without having your own plan in place first is a huge red flag. I would never shop there if the guy in charge got all of his advice from complete randos. You sound like you don’t even have a business degree much less a business plan

I was with you right up until the last bit there. Let's not hassle them for asking for feedback, I think that is a respectable thing to do. But yeah, I agree this is at best very aspirational and poorly conceived. 

[Panther10]

12 hours ago, SlyRoxy said:

I was with you right up until the last bit there. Let's not hassle them for asking for feedback, I think that is a respectable thing to do. But yeah, I agree this is at best very aspirational and poorly conceived. 

Fair dues but I felt like it was necessary to say the quiet part out loud in this instance. Most People on the street don’t have the acumen for how a business should be run or conducted at a managerial perspective at best and at worst, do not know or understand how to moderate their own behavior in a store or on a website or an app at the customer level. We just don’t have a lot of insight to give. If this guy were really serious about starting a new app then he should talk to experts in internet technologies, not us.

Also it has to be said but furs appeal the most to people above a certain income bracket; A.k.a the obnoxiously wealthy because they are the ones who can afford it. The middle class might be interested in a fur if they have inherited one from a family member or if they have found one for an affordable price, but most people in this income bracket won’t bother searching for furs because it’s simply unobtainable. And those in a low income bracket will generally avoid furs because while they might look nice, purchasing anything expensive is either frowned upon or out of the question for personal reasons. 

So if your intention is to create an easily accessible app for trading furs, you will still run into these hurdles because more than likely low income and middle class shoppers will not have any furs to trade, and those who can afford to buy furs new will continue to do so without even bothering to look at your app for low cost alternatives. Not even those who operate fur boutiques and thrift shops will be in a position to offer their services on your app because most shops are independently owned and conduct their own business without networking at the street level. A fair amount of shops aren’t even allowed to sell second hand goods because it’s against their business charter. 

So yeah this entire endeavor is a non-starter

Edited September 11, 2023 by Panther10

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Panther10 said:

Fair dues but I felt like it was necessary to say the quiet part out loud in this instance. Most People on the street don’t have the acumen for how a business should be run or conducted at a managerial perspective at best and at worst, do not know or understand how to moderate their own behavior in a store or on a website or an app at the customer level. We just don’t have a lot of insight to give. If this guy were really serious about starting a new app then he should talk to experts in internet technologies, not us.

Also it has to be said but furs appeal the most to people above a certain income bracket; A.k.a the obnoxiously wealthy because they are the ones who can afford it. The middle class might be interested in a fur if they have inherited one from a family member or if they have found one for an affordable price, but most people in this income bracket won’t bother searching for furs because it’s simply unobtainable. And those in a low income bracket will generally avoid furs because while they might look nice, purchasing anything expensive is either frowned upon or out of the question for personal reasons. 

So if your intention is to create an easily accessible app for trading furs, you will still run into these hurdles because more than likely low income and middle class shoppers will not have any furs to trade, and those who can afford to buy furs new will continue to do so without even bothering to look at your app for low cost alternatives. Not even those who operate fur boutiques and thrift shops will be in a position to offer their services on your app because most shops are independently owned and conduct their own business without networking at the street level. A fair amount of shops aren’t even allowed to sell second hand goods because it’s against their business charter. 

So yeah this entire endeavor is a non-starter

I can see value in surveying the target audience but yes, I do agree with your overall points. I think the broader issue is platforms for acquiring fur in the secondary market, which is where the middle class buyer lives, already exist and can manage the exchange at much lower cost than what is being proposed here. Take something like eBay; there is a single shipping cost that is covered by the buyer, and a cut taken by the platform which comes out of the seller's profit. Compare that to four shipping transactions and no direct exchange of currencies between parties to siphon a fee from, and all the other costs that have been pointed out and there is a clear competitive viability issue. The novelty of swapping instead of buying doesn't seem like enough of a draw to offset that.