Dominatrix with a fur raison D'etre

[Guest]

We got to invite her.

 

www.maitresseelise.com/venusinfurs.htm

 

she quotes from Sacher masoch and the Velvet Underground!!!

 

How CAF is that!!!????

 

Now we have a picture area why not let dommes and models advertise their sites in a swap for four permanent pics on our new gallery!!????

 

Some may stay around too and make the place even more interesting.

[Guest]

kinda sad, if you read her stuff she makes a point of saying how she has had to remove many pics and stopped taking new clients, round about the same time as me.

 

for those into the horse/equine play... ya gotta laugh at the pics of trigger! he has been in the scene longer than anyone i've ever talked to and is infamous as a difficult bugger. i refused to see him.

 

i've seen her in ddi magazine before... she is a pretty woman. i don't know about it being a good idea to link to a dom's site these days though... especially with the new gallery. i hate to say it but it might bring about unwanted attention, if ya know what i mean.

[Ravens8]

. i hate to say it but it might bring about unwanted attention

 

I think Miss T could be right on this. It's a shame because it's a good idea Touch, and something like that would have been good.

 

I've been aware of M Elise's site for a long time now. I think she is a stunningly beautifull woman. I just love her eyes, could gaze into them for hours

 

If you know the source of any other pics of her Miss T, (other than on her site) I would be very gratefull to be pointed in the right direction!

[Guest]

don't know of any other pics offhand but if i find some will let ya know.

 

i didn't mean to sound unwelcoming, as you all know i'd love to have a lady like her around and link to her, etc, etc. it's just a sad statement of the times to have to be so ultra-cautious. honestly, i am surprised she even keeps her site up and going, seeing as she doesn't take new clients. i was too afraid to keep any advertising out there, so even old clients who've lost my number are out of luck....

 

i wish her nothing but the best and will be happy to contact her about the den and invite her here if others think it is a good thing to do. it was just linking that might be unwise... i think she'd make a great addition here as a member though.

[Fox]

I see absolutely no problem with inviting her here.

[Guest]

well she seems to love fur and this is what the site is about.

 

What I cannot understand is why domme work is clamped down on...here,

and in Europe its seen as Art.

 

she is cleary devoted to a visual thing and fur as is Miss T. So I just thought it would be nice to invite her thats all.

[Guest]

Im suprised someone hasnt sent her an invite yet.

 

It cant hurt not to try and send her an invite .

[Guest]

I'll do it now! I'll send her the little form letter I made but also personalize it with an email note and a pic of me so she can check up to see who I am, that I was an advertising pro like her, etc. etc. Wish me luck!

 

It is awful the way the laws are going here... but they are really starting to put "kink" onto the books, so to speak. Being a dom has always fallen into this deliberately grey area of the law... I've not had one lawyer be able to tell me if it's legal or not. Most obscenity laws, and this is what we're talking about, have not been updated since the 50's... at least for Ohio. That is ridiculous isn't it?! Basically, the way the law is worded, even paying someone money to spend time with you, even just talking, may be illegal under the obscenity laws of Ohio. Most states are similar, but some make mention of bdsm activities directly... in those states, Nevada is first to come to mind, a dom would be charged with assault charges as well as obscenity. The reason: that state does not recognize consent in bdsm situations. So, let's say you live in Nevada and go to your dom to get a paddling/spanking and johnny law decides to intervene... the guy would get a slap on the wrist and a fine, while the dom would face obscenity, pandering, running a house of prostitution as well as assault charges (all felonies with prison time)! Messed up, isn't it?! There is no reason for me to think our laws are going to go more in our favor, as recently it's been proven that we kinksters are on a big list for which the attorney general alberto gonzales has created a whole new task force (part of that internet child protection stuff).

[Fox]

Good luck Miss T.

Sorry to hear 'bout all that though.

[Guest]

Okay, I did just send Maitresse Elise an email introducing myself, attatched a few photos and gave her a reference so that she could verify who I am. I did include the letter of invitation to the den. We'll see if she replies!

[Fox]

WOO HOO!

[Guest]

Miss T

you should go to a newspapaer or magazine and tell them how this law is affecting you.

In Europe, the maitresse scene has long been identified with burlesque and is considered a cultural pheneomenon and is never viewed like it is there.

Nearly all maitresses do events and also private shows. Thats all it is.

Its the Art of visual seduction. In the UK they can openly advertise private sessions...and they always make a point of saying its not sexual services.

 

Actually its a sick mind and sick legislation that would deem otherwise.

 

Funny though...here the right wing is all for liberty, and the left is all for control . We don't have that christian crap here. Tory mps are the biggest fans of maitresses!!!! To get an insight into UK right wing politics (its so refreshing now too) you may want to have a look at "the New Statesman" with Rik Mayall. There is a fair bit of fur in the series too.

[Guest]

Anything with Rik Mayall is definitely on my "to watch" list. Thanks for that. I have known for years that the UK is much more realistic with fetish things, and that the govn't guys are the best clients... just never could get that far from home, know what I mean?

 

I firmly belive it is our puritan ancestry that lingers in our laws and societal morals far too much... at least when it comes to bdsm. It is so much in the mainstream these days, yet no more understood or accepted. It is more of a type of comic relief in movies and such. Take, for example, what Gary Marshall did with Anne Rice's novel "Exit to Eden." I was horrified that they had made that a comedy with Rosie O'Donnell and Dan Akroyd! Travesty! It is ok to take it lightly in the media and entertainment world, but they do not wish to actually educate with their power.

 

I would never feel comfortable going to the media for several reasons, but this is already going way off topic I know. Suffice it to say, that when the media finds out about one of us, it is purely exploited for whatever "unsavory" bits of news they can dredge up... never to help the situation. Take my friend Lady Sage in Columbus... she was stalked for days by the media and outed with her real name and address. Now she is so much of a sitting target... I worry for her. Enough said....

 

At any rate, I'll let you all know if I get an email back from Elise.

[Guest]

the US has real problems with all sorts of morality fascists doesnt it? I thought we were bad here; but the people arent. The christian right doesnt exist here. At all. I guess we got rid of them all the The USA .

 

Our morality police are active in smoking and animal rights.

 

Thats bad enough. Its all fascism.

[FurLoverinFL]

Puritan ethics are deeply woven into our culture. I believe that everything runs in cycles. The openness and excesses of the 1960s, 1970s and even the 1980s have given way to the move to the right in the late 1990s and 2000s. Eventually, I believe the pendulem will swing back. Just hope I'm around to see that day...

 

FLinFL

[Ravens8]

I hadn't realised that things were quite so bad for you in the US. it must be really tough. They say that what happens in the States usually ends up over here. Full circle? - We too have had puritanical eras in the past, so lets hope in this case there would be enough of us to resist such moves. But moralistic dictates can be quite insidiuous in the way they invade.

 

Thanks for Miss T for your work in inviting Elise. Hope she responds to you, it would be great to see her here

[Worker 11811]

In Europe, the maitresse scene has long been identified with burlesque and is considered a cultural pheneomenon and is never viewed like it is there.

 

[bDSM] is so much in the mainstream these days, yet no more understood or accepted.

 

Since the main point of discussion (Inviting M Elise to the Den) is on hold till she replies, I won't worry too much about pulling this thread off-topic but I still think it relates.

 

I see and hear so many people saying, "You don't understand...", when it comes to their personal lives. It can be about the debate between Gay and Straight people. It can be about Transvestite/Transexuals. It can be about BDSM and/or fetishes. It's always the same... Lack of understanding.

 

I'm not putting people down for these things. I'm just saying that there's a gulf of understanding, here, that people from both sides can't seem to cross.

 

Let me put this in a perspective from my life: Teddy Bears.

 

Admittedly, loving Bears is NOTHING like being TV or being a Dom. It could only loosely be called a fetish but really, it's a phenomenon by itself.

 

Most people assume that Teddy Bear lovers are all "Sweetness and Light". They think it's a children's hobby or, if you are an adult, you must be either a woman or Gay to love Bears.

 

I have had people say all of those things to me when they hear that I love Bears.

 

For some reason, people think that a grown man who collects something like Teddy Bears must be some kind of GRINNING IDIOT!

 

How many of you would be shocked to find out that both my wife and I have permits to carry concealed handguns?

 

How many of you would be freightened if I told you that I carry a Glock Model 19, concealed, almost anywhere I go unless it's illegal or improper. (Schools, Churches, Hospitals or "Posted" premises, etc.)

 

A lot of people would be freaked if the knew that I have been carrying a gun for years and they didn't even know it.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that, because of that misunderstanding, people make assumptions about people when they find out that they are part of some "Outside" group.

 

Lots of people who know I love Bears are flabbergasted when I pick up a circular saw and screw gun to build a piece of scenery for a stage production. They are equally amazed when they see me hoist my 260 pound frame 50 feet up a ladder to the catwalk and start focusing lights on the stage.

 

It's just the opposite when people who know me from the stage and/or the projection booth find out I'm a Bear lover.

 

It just makes people brains go wonky when they try to reconcile me as a foul-mouthed stage hand and a gun-toting redneck and a big, dumb Teddy Bear collector all at the same time.

 

I don't know exactly where I'm going with this but to ask:

 

Is it any wonder people don't understand the likes of Miss T or M Elise?

 

Frankly, the older I get, the more I think that the General Public, at large, are a bunch of stupid, narrow-minded zealots.

[ReFur]

worker,

 

Reading your post makes me really sad for you.

 

All I can say is, I hope you find peace with the goodness that is inside of you.

 

fuzzy dreams,

 

Linda

[Worker 11811]

Don't feel sad. I'm not.

I'm happy with who I am.

 

I love my wife. We love the Bears and they love us back.

 

That's what counts.

 

I'm not talking about Bears, per se, but more about what people experience when they do things that are a outside the average range of other peoples' tastes.

 

I'm sure that any one of us could take a look at other members of this site and find something that's not to like about almost every one of them. But I think I'm correct in saying we have two qualities going for us:

 

1) We understand that everybody has the right to choose their lifestyle.

 

2) We know that one aspect of somebody's personality can't be used to make generalizations the whole person's life.

 

So, if there's one thing that bothers me, it's not that people make fun of me because I love Bears. It's about the way people, in general, persecute others like Miss T for things that, when you come right down to it, are pretty trivial.

[Mr Barguzin]

You know... it's a funny thing about mankind. We all like to think that we are fair and open... and that we express ourselves in a manner which is understood by the majority.

 

Yet in Indonesia they are introducing an act that bans pornography... as in women not covering themselves from neck to knee in public... and heaven help a tourist if she wears a bikini *shudder*(sounds rather Victorian doesn't it?? HM is this a western case of been there, done that??)

 

Fuirthermore, within our little community are men who wear fur out in public in winter without a hint of "shame" whereas others, myself included, hide away in our houses and luxuriate in privacy because of some doubt that others (read homophobes) will target us as not being 'real' men, but on the 'limp' side. Of course if we were (black) rap stars we'd be held up as fashion leaders, but poor whitey accountant wearing fox coat MUST be gay... or at the very least effeminate.

 

As a well, was going to say joke, but it was the coldest day of the year to date a couple of years ago, I wore my first purchase (pic available in Gallery *grin*) into the office on a casual dress day. The boss and secretary were effussive in their complements, One of the women asked if it were real and turned up her nose when I said "should bloody well hope so" whilst the other lady just smiled... as if knowingly (about what I have no idea)

 

There were also two blokes in the office...a junior and my equal. The junior just stared at me and the coat.. getting redder in the face all the time. The other just stared at me dumbfounded.

 

And you know the funny thing?? I Didn't give a tinker's cuss for their reactions cause the Boss and Secretary had been so effussive in their compliments.

 

However, the drive home was another story *sigh*, especially when stopped at a set of lights with folks waiting to cross the street. Amazing what you can't see when you look straight ahead.

 

Anyways, those that know me know I am not gay.... straight as an arrow I am... ( and yes folks, I know... when released from a bow an arrow flexes and twists, but usually is straight when it sinks into the target.) So maybe some day in the future I will again venture forth as a fur wearer. It would be nice to have female company (fur clad *grin*) at that time to confuse those that are already confused. Now.... I do wonder if whilst at Uni, had I had a fox coat..... would I have worn it to a couple of night Rugby matches I played in and froze watching the other games. Only ever saw one other fur coat at uni, and it was worn by a girl.. red fox it was. We would have made a nice picture on the sidelines in our furs *grin*

 

OOOOOOPPPPPPPSssssssssss just remembered a Scottish Tutor who turned up at a College do (race day *grin*... girls riding blokes...not men drinking beer.. although that too occured*hic*) wearing a fur coat.... it was dark in colour and in all likelihood was muskrat. I do not recall any dubious comments being thrown his way as he was a rather popular tutor.

 

So worker, we all suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous prejudice (read putting you/me/us in the wrong hole), but who is the one who is truly missing out.

 

I didn't on that day, the scottish tutor didn't, nor do you because you have someone special to share the love of your life with...... your Bears *grin*

[Patience]

Just a word of encouragement ...

 

Always remember that you are special; you are unique ... just like everyone else on this planet.

 

[Guest]

The big problem here is that it is all very well the petit boutgeois, with their long fingers reaching into politics, education and media, dictate the morality of society.

Someone who doesnt fit into that narrow vision, which on the one hand preaches tolerance, is ostracized into at best marginalism, and at worst

criminalised or demonised.

 

I say petit bourgeois because it is them which create morality in a democracy. The working class is too busy just trying to survive, unless they have reached a level of respectability and "aspire" ro be middle class.

 

And if you don't buy into that then you are marginalised.

 

Now the problem to me is that the petit bourgeois are the same bunch of narrow minded jerks who bought us communism , fascism and a whole other bunch of isms and ideologies...animal rights the latest....designed to make their morlity the one that dictates social norms in a democracy.

 

So if you wear fur, smoke, are involved in the sex industry, hunt,....or even something as harmless as being a trainspotter or a teddy bear collector...you are considered weird, and in some cases criminalised.

 

So Miss T is criminalised, I am criminalised as a smoker, my friends and others are criminalised (including members of the aristocracy) because they Hunt.

It is in that last line where the secret as to what is happening lies. It is part of a hundred year old transition of power from the old powers that be...the landed wealth...to the small middle class. No coincidence that Hitler was a vegetarian and banned foxhunting.

 

If this abuse of power goes on believe me, it will affect many more people.

 

Dog and cat breeders are currently facing absurd restrictions on how to operate by the long fingers of the AR movement.

 

Fur will be made illegal too soon. Mark my words...AR is that much a part of the moral fabric of the mainstream petit bourgeois morality. The "chattering classes" oppress and control. Dictate morality.

 

When that morality "controls" the masses through media , government and education, we all face discrimination until we are hounded out to the fringes.

 

So we have people arrested and fined for smoking, we have people put in prison for traditional British foxhunting, hounded "outta town" for being dommes, arrested for loitering for being trainspotters , and anybody who earns their money unusually considered possible money launderers.

Islam is the latest section of society to be marginalised....and that process could draw huge numbers of people to exremist stances for defence.

 

Meanwhile, rapists murderers and drug adicts are given the "soft treatment" .

 

The most outrageous is when foreign policy is dictated by this narrow morality.

Sadly, to the majority of people in the world democracy is a dirty word. they recognise that it is possible for the largest group to opress the smallest. This is why they will not accept it. Ever. Unless we re invent democracy without this fatal flaw of the "majority" opressing the minority we are doomed.

 

It is also disgusting when we allow the Chinese to openly flaunt international law on human rights, copyright and animal welfare, because

those in our society with a vested interest in ignoring those issues because of global business can conveniently ignore what suits them, while at the same time threatening to ban exports from Canada and Greenland because of seal hunting.

 

This even works on a small level.

Stella Mccartney can ignore the fact that she earns money from a fur house (Gucci are basically that) and ignore the fact that her friend and model is Kate Moss who wears fur, and yet lecture us with her father about the evils of fur and hunting.

 

Well the only good thing is that the seeds of failure always lie in hypocrisy and isms can never control us all for long.

 

Either those with power recognise this or western society will fall apart.

 

It needs to be more all embracing.

 

You cannot marginalise productive elements of society because they dont fit into boxes or narrow perceptions of morality.

 

If you allow certain groups to be ostracized in this way it will be you next.

[White Fox]

Worker:

There is a very old saying. Your last two lines in the original post reminded me of it.

 

"Everybody is strange but me and Thee. And Even Thee are strange once in awhile!"

W

[Worker 11811]

I really think a lot of this phenomenon is an outgrowth of too much media coverage of the news.

 

We now have news programs on television and radio 24 hours per day. That 24-hour news cycle creates a culture of sensaltionalism, needed to attract viewers and bring in advertising revenue.

 

No longer do news editors need to "filter" the news to make sure important stories get top billing. They need FILLER, instead. Anything sensational, outrageous or eye-catching makes top billing in the headlines.

 

How many people DIED today in Iraq?

 

What government agency FAILED to recognize some piece of critical information that could have been used to stop terrorism?

 

For cryin' out loud! C.N.N. actually showed footage of a cat being rescued from a tree!

 

And, the worst part is that we all sit there and watch it!

 

The point is that we are constantly barraged with bad news, all day and all night long. That creates a feeling that there are too many problems in the world. The truth is that there are just as many problems today as there were 20 years ago. We just know about more of them than we used to.

 

So, we have a whole world full of people sitting in front of their TVs and their radios, watching the world go to Hell in front of their eyes. Who WOULDN'T want to try to fix it?

 

Then reality sets in:

 

We can't all go to Iraq and make the terrorists go away.

 

We can't rebuild the World Trade Center.

 

Heck! We can't even go to East Bumfuk, Texas to rescue that cat!

 

But SOMETHING has to be done!

 

Well, we can call our Congressmen and our local Assemblymen and have them pass LAWS. They can't pass laws to outlaw terrorism. They can't legislate the World Trade Center back in place. And they can't repeal the Law of Gravity, stopping that cat from falling out of the tree.

 

So, what do they do? They go after the EASY targets: Sex. Drugs. Immorality. Things that "everybody" agrees are "bad". It makes the constituancy think that their elected officials are doing "something" to make the world better.

 

The problem is that there's no way to stop bad things from happening but there are plenty of "vices" in the world to "fix". So, let's just imagine that it's possible to wave a magic wand and make illegal drugs go away. Bad things are STILL going to happen. The government STILL needs to do things to make the world "better". And, there are plenty of "vices" to go around.

 

So, today, it's illegal drugs that get attacked by the government. Tomorrow it's prostitution. The next day it's something else. Eventually, they run out of things to pacify the public with because the "Problem of the Week" is either solved or, at least, swept under the rug long enough for the public to quiet down about it. Eventually, they run out of "real" problems to worry about.

 

That's when they start going after "Lifestyle" issues.

 

Today, it's smoking. Tomorrow, it's Gay people. The day after that it's Animal Rights or Furs or any one of a million little things.

Anything to keep the public's mind off the REAL problems of the day.

Anything to keep them thinking that the government is doing "something" about the problems in the world.

Anything to fill up the 24-hour news cycle.

 

People MUST learn to filter their own news. They can't pay attentin to every little thing they see on TV and think that it's significant. They've got to pry their eyeballs off the TV screen and start THINKING for THEMSELVES!

 

Maybe some day, people will "burn out" from watching the 24-hour "Media Circus"... I Hope so... But I don't have faith that it will happen any time soon.

 

Oh! And, BTW, White Fox.

 

I love your saying! It's so true!

 

When people give me crap about loving Teddy Bears, I usually counter with:

 

"The world is divided into two nations. Those with Teddy Bears, those without. Each thinks the other odd."

 

[Guest]

We are definitely with the teddy bears.

 

I think we should round everyone up without teddy bears and take away their rights.