Fox Question

[ReFur]

Edit by AKcoyote: I split this from a Furriers Corner topic with the same subject, because this was starting a discussion that is more appropriate in the Fur Den.

 

Lynxette and Fur_Babe,

 

Your experiences in the marketplace could shed some insights here.

 

 

Mailon Furs, have you seen a resurgance in interest in Fox yet in Europe?

 

 

AK, ever see black Fox up there?

 

 

Furcoatman, keep reading Fox is coming back. Have you seen it hit the upscale shops yet?

 

I believe the "chubbies" have had nice marketplace acceptance. But, I don't believe that is in the upscale market. More for entry level and younger market.

 

Linda

[AKcoyote]

Linda,

 

The only black fox I have seen is dyed usually from blue fox pelts. The natural color foxes here are mostly red and arctic.

[ReFur]

I did a Google search this morning and found this interesting article.

 

If you skim down to "Fox, Silver," you will see they do list a Natural Black Fox that is very rare and obviously expensive.

 

Linda

 

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Fur

[Mr Barguzin]

Funny.... but I had thought that the black fox came before the Silver fox.... cause I remember seeing something online about an American Breeders association and it was actually dealing with Black Foxes, and silver foxes were the "newest thing".

 

Also interesting how it said that silvers had a bluey tinge to it *grin*... cause I have a feeling that the 'true' blue fox is more creamycoloured than whitish in colour and has dark hairs that have a similar bluish hue to them when seen in direct sunlight. Artic blue foxes of the wild variety spring to mind.

[fur_babe]

Scrolling down the article Linda posted, a better definition of natural black fox is listed. It is in the paragraph titled "Silver Fox". Natural black fox is a variation of the silver fox where black fur has replaced the silver fur.

 

It is also a rare species and very very very expensive. I cannot recall ever seeing or hearing about a natural black fox before this post. Because of the rare availability of natural black fox fur, I think we can assume that the black fox we are familiar with is a dyed fox.

[Jeni Love]

I guess I can thank you here for the answer to my question in the

furriers corner. The fur rainbow is a wonderful photo too! the links

are quite informative.

[mailonfurs]

Funny.... but I had thought that the black fox came before the Silver fox.... cause I remember seeing something online about an American Breeders association and it was actually dealing with Black Foxes, and silver foxes were the "newest thing".

 

Also interesting how it said that silvers had a bluey tinge to it *grin*... cause I have a feeling that the 'true' blue fox is more creamycoloured than whitish in colour and has dark hairs that have a similar bluish hue to them when seen in direct sunlight. Artic blue foxes of the wild variety spring to mind.

 

Black Foxes can be dyed from almost ANY kind and colour of fox!!

We usually use blue foxes cause they are cheaper... But I can tell you, you can make a great black fox out of white, silver, anything...

 

Linda, I think Fox will make a comeback in the fashion world. We at Mailon Furs mostly work with mink and use Foxes for collars, cuffs etc however I see a rising demand in Foxes.

[Patience]

Anything is possible in Nature but if there were a reliable source of natural black fox, Nieman-Marcus would have offered it for sale in one of their Christmas books.

 

Patience

[fur_babe]

I also think that foxes are on the upswing. The area where I see them becoming popular is the small fur such as jackets, stoles, caplets, etc. and being worn at social events. Their purpose will be to help cope with the annoying chills such as drafts from ventilating units. They will be used for evening social events where exposure to the outdoors is minimul and on those days when we have moderate temperatures.

 

For those real cold windy days of winter where warmth and comfort is essential, I think the mink coat will prevail. Typically, it will be a maxi coat in either brown or black mink and will be worn as an everyday fur. A possible new look for daytime social events on cold days will be a mink coat with a lavish amount of fox trim.

 

The real good news however is that it is again acceptable to wear furs.

[ReFur]

If you think about what allows a specie to survive in the wild, it is its ability to blend into its surroundings to hide.

 

I cannot imagine a natural habitat where a black fox could survive. It also must be difficult to reproduce since I am certain it would be in high demand from the fur farms.

 

So, I think that Kostas is right. Not likely this animal exists.

 

Linda

[Ravens8]

Good Grief Linda, have you never heard of the lithuanian cave dwelling fox - feeds almost exclusively on bats - sticks its front leg out very still until a bat comes to roost on it (hence it has to be black, in the dark -) Then in one quick snap of the jaws, said bat is a gonner. Only time humans ever see it is very occasionally on very dark nights when it creeps out of its cave to mate under the new moon - hence very rare!!

[Guest]

ravens8;

 

Maybe you could go Snipe hunting with me some night?

 

Rarest of all furs.

 

 

OFF

[Ravens8]

Look forward to it OFF!!

[Guest]

errr.....

what are you guys on?

 

We sometimes see black foxes out hunting in the UK. Not very often; but I have seen at least a dozen in different parts of the country.

 

It is like a black leopard... a recessive gene I assume. Even saw one black in a litter once.

 

So it would be presumably easy to isolate and breed; and probably is in most types of fox.

 

All our other foxes are mostly pink (seriously; very pale red). Too short haired for fur though.

 

And mos foxes are born very darl almost black in the UK.

 

It is a nocturanl animla here mostly; so black can be good.

[ReFur]

Touch,

 

That is interesting.

 

I wonder why they are not bred then? Seems it would be a very in demand fur.

 

Linda

[Guest]

Well I imagine that they were...and it led to silver fox.

 

the British fox is too short and wire haired for fur use.

 

I have seen natural black fox though...it isn't as black as the dyed, and is more like silver fox than the blue fox soft dyed black. Had a vanadian jacket in it which I sold on....it said on the label natural black fox. It was an eighties one...but I cannot tell you any more about it sorry. I must say it wasn't as nice as some black fox I have seen that is dyed; but was okay.

 

Maybe we could find a way to catch our foxes and send them to cabada for breeding and tyhen they will eventually get longer haired, thicker fur. Their colour is gorgeous...I have never seen a fox fur in colour like a British pink fox; or the darker red variety. We do get that funny orange colour in furs but not often.

 

hey ...looks like you do have black fox in the Americas:

www.blandcanyon.com/foxes.html

 

and like they say...it is just a red fox black in colour, and silver.

[Guest]

Got a couple or ten centuries to hang out in Canada Touch?

 

We could got to Kentuckey and watch grass grow. It would be far more exciting.

 

 

 

OFF

[Ravens8]

Any of you ever read @The Ballard of the Black Fox Skin@ by poet Robert Service.

 

Synopsis of story : Natives call it The devil fox - unkillable - Hunter hunts it high and low - fails, and, finally exhausted, gives up - at which point it appears at his door - he shoots it - Hunter then falls in with a bad lot Claw fingered Kitty and Windy Ike - They kill him for the pelt - Kitty then steals it from Ike, and runs away - Ike follows her and murders her - whilst running away with the pelt, Ike falls through a hole in the ice and drowns - Witnesses run over, but fox pelt has disappeared.

 

First verse

 

There was Claw fingered Kitty and Windy Ike living the life of shame.

When unto them in the long long night came the man who had no name

Bearing his prize of a black fox pelt, out of the wild he came.

 

..........Did you ever see such a skin quoth he, There's nought in the world so fine

Such fullness of fur as black as the night, such lustre, such size, such shine ..............

 

Last verse :- And strange it is, for though they searched the river all around.

No trace or sign of black fox skin was ever after found.

Though one man said he saw the tread of HOOFS, deep in the ground.

 

So there you are - its a long poem (about six pages) and although the poetry is a bit simplistic, it's a cracking adventure yarn of the North.

 

SO BE CAREFULL Linda if you ever find your true black fox pelt!!!

[Guest]

Never liked wearing Black anyway.

 

I have a black mink and leather reversable jacket for sale.

 

Should have never bought it in the first place.

 

 

 

OFF

[FrBrGr]

This entry for Sea Otter in the aforementioned fur encyclopedia compares it's costliness to Black Fox and Sable:

 

Otter, Sea. - Size 50 X25 in. Possesses one of the most beautiful of coats. Unlike other aquatic animals the skin undergoes no process of unhairing, the fur being of a rich dense silky wool with the softest and shortest of water hairs. The colours vary from pale grey brown to a rich black, and many have even or uneven sprinkling of white or silvery-white hairs. The blacker the wool and the more regular the silver points, the more valuable the skin. Sea otters are, unfortunately, decreasing in numbers, while the demand is increasing. The fur is most highly esteemed in Russia and China; in the latter country it is used to trim mandarins' state robes. In Europe and America it is much used for collar, long facings and cuffs of a gentleman's coat; such a set may cost from ,200 to boo, and in all probability will soon cost more. Taking into consideration the size, it is not so costly as the natural black fox, or the darkest Russian sable, which is now the most expensive of all. The smaller and young sea otters of a grey or brown colour are of small value compared to the large dark and silvery ones.

[Mr Barguzin]

And we also find the following at another site:

 

www.blandcanyon.com/foxes/foxes.html

 

Curiouser and curiouser.

 

For we then find this:

 

http://www.nps.gov/mora/notes/vol2-10b.htm

 

Along with another (just for ToS *grin*)

 

http://www.curbstone.org/index.cfm?webpage=112

 

Which brings us back to the original question: IS it really a dyed black fox or is it a natural?

 

http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/Exhibitions/PrinceEdwardIslandHarvest/fox_e/slidepdf/foxhistoryforpdf_E.pdf

http://rothesaylivingmuseum.nbed.nb.ca/communities/renforth/foxfarmbw.pdf#search=%22black%20fox%20breeders%22

(the latter link being a 'prospectus' for a silver fox company in the 1910's.... and look at some of the prices paid per pelt!!! talk about your social commentary.

 

MAybe tyhis will provide the full answer.