Anyone drive a hybrid?

[Joe]

I'm feeling particularly Mod today, and I figured someone was going to move this from the Den if I just left it there. So if you've been linked over, welcome to the Pub.

 

...

 

 

I've leased my vehicle here in the States since early 2004. I haven't gone a month without driving since before I had my license. When I hit the States last week, I hadn't driven since August 14. Cry me a river, eh? Now, I find myself road tripping like crazy (next stop, Chicago). I currently get about 22-26 on the highway, but ever since I've been doing all this American driving...I'm more attuned than ever to not only my mileage, but the crazy amount of money I'm spending on gas in contrast to living independent of le macchine in Roma. Granted, the exchange rate counts for a lot.

 

 

Does anyone own or lease a hybrid? I'm seriously considering either the Toyota Prius or the next-generation Saturn Vue Green Line when I move back from Rome.

 

About a year ago, a friend of mine bought a Lexus hybrid. I didn't know whether to applaud the technology or bust his marrones for all the...er...Smug emissions. Let's face it, I've crunched the numbers too. We don't have the Lexus hybrids because we want to save the environment, dahling. However...my friend kept track of not only his mileage, but his fuel expenditures compared to his colleague's Mercedes M-Class, which has similar perfomance numbers. He ended up saving over $1,600 a year on gas. That's a new fur right there.

 

J.

[Guest]

Probably my next "new" car.

 

Right now I'm pushing 170,000 miles in my 12 year old VW Golf.

 

It's not only economical but it's one or more cars that didn't have o be made over that time span. "They" may view cars as disposable on a two year cycle but there's no reason I have to.

 

My way is to get one that's efficient and reliable and run it as long as it will efficiently and reliably run.

 

It still gets +30mpg and is in excellent running order [keep it that way].

 

 

OFF

[MrMockle]

J,

 

I'm far from an expert on cars so I take my advice from the experts - Jeremy Clarkson and the guys from Top Gear.

 

Their verdict is that the Prius and similar hybrid cars are a terrible choice; they liked the cleverness of the engineering, the quietness of the electric motor and admired the marketing buzz it has spawned but laugh at the fuel consumption rates. In a recent radio interview on the BBC, Clarkson's suggestion for those who want to save the planet - or even just a few pounds on their fuel bills - was to buy a VW Golf diesel or a Ford Focus diesel.

 

Further details can no doubt be found on the Top Gear pages of the BBC website.

 

Regards,

Mr Mockle

[Guest]

Think you and your guys are correct Mr. M though diesel is still too high in sulphur emmisions if you want to be "responsible".

 

I hear Mercedes has come out with a diesel which burns with a dramatically reduced sulphur emmisions. Not sure if it is true or available though.

 

All electric is one option but then the generating source of the electricity has to be considered.

 

It's an endless loop of consumption and pollution.

 

Possibly methane generated from garbage would be a responsible low pollution fuel source for electrical generation? Two birds with one stone.

 

 

OFF

[MrMockle]

OFF,

 

Garbage powered cars are a bit "Back To The Future" but Top Gear has also previewed the hydrogen powered car in development by GM. It may not be available for ten or so years and of course may cost a lot but sea water is clearly a growing resource and the only emissions will be water vapour. Until that comes along a diesel might be the best bet if you have to have a car.

 

Regards,

Mr Mockle

[Guest]

Mr M.;

 

Hydrogen sounds good but it's way more complex and improbable than it at first seems.

 

I've investigated it for heating homes [stationary facility and easiest to deal with].

 

It takes methane to make hydrogen currently. The fantasy of filling your car up with water and driving down the road or going to a water sourced 'hydrogen' station is fantasy and marketing hype.

 

Recovering fuel from our crap, literal and figurative, is not only currently possible but can be VERY efficient. Tires, plastics, garbage and crap. Any biomass can be efficiently converted to diesel or methane. It would also cope witht he literal mountains of garbage and unredeemable trash we generate daily.

 

This is achievable TODAY. This is also where politics and politicians not only fail us but are actually criminal in their greed, actions and non-actions.

 

The irony as Al Gore has pointed out, this would create many more real and profitable jobs [for more people] and industry than the petroleum industry currently does. The point is greed, pure and simple. My Pesident and your Prime Minister heads the pack.

 

OFF

[White Fox]

Re Prius...

 

I have only talked to one owner and they got way, way better mileage than they expected from it. Someone mentioned that if you drive them like a race car they will give mileage the same. Drive them like a low powered fuel efficient car and they will give good mileage. That is not from experience though. I do know that when I almost bought one recently that they warned me not to buy it if I liked quick starts.

 

The whole world of fuel and fuel cells is indeed a whole new realm. There is indeed much research yet to be done. I am sure it is coming. But I am not sure that I will ever see it.

W

[frugalfurguy]

Hey Joe you might check out Lynxette's response to my recent post here on Coming up on a Big 10.

 

Best wishes!

 

frugalfurguy

[Guest]

Check my post in the GM v Bill Gates thread.

 

A hybrid? You got to be kidding. Mine didn't cost $1 million to manufacture to mess with it like that. They don't call it a throughbred for nothing.

[Unclejoe420]

I guess I might be saving more than anyone here, and making less emissions too - I don't own a car..

 

Then again, I'd be the kind of person who, should I win the lottery, would buy a Bugatti Veyron; probably the worst fuel consumption of any car I know - you can empty the gas tank in 12 minutes!!

[frugalfurguy]

Hey, Unclejoe, I don't think you got me beat. Been almost 10 years since I divorced my car. But if I were to win the lottery (highly unlikely since I don't buy tickets in the first place) I'd stay car free and use my lottery income to speed me to financial independence.

 

Still and all it's rather surprising to encounter another car free person here!

 

frugalfurguy

[lynxette]

Yes, and along with that financial independence, just imagine how many furs you could buy for yourself or that special someone?

[frugalfurguy]

Ha ha! Thanks Lynxette!

 

Really for me Financial Independence doesn't mean I'll have unlimited supplies of cash. It would be where I have enough. I don't make money like Bill Gates. Still I believe it's possible for me to have enough. We live in a culture which neglects to instill in us a sense of enough. If I'm required always to acquire more, I will never really know myself or live a fulfilled life.

 

I want to be sure I'm distinguishing between figuring out for myself how much is enough (of anything, including furs) and hating or prohibiting furs. I don't think someone who enjoys a glass of wine about once a week could be said to hate wine just because they don't drink two glasses a day.

 

For now I've satisfied my desire to own furs for less than $100. If my life were to open up to a lover, she might not like what I've got at that rate, and I might have to consider spending more. Still, I couldn't go to a won't-be-satisfied-till-I-have-a-coat-jacket-stole-cape-hat-muff-and-blanket in every species attitude and still be financially independent.

 

For now, though, I have enough, and that fulfillment many millions might not buy without that internal sense of satisfaction.

 

And I've lectured enough--if not to excess.

 

frugalfurguy

[lynxette]

I agree frugalfurguy, that each person must make up their own mid as to what is right for them, particularly when it comes to discretionary purchases. And of course there is nothing inherently better about an expensive fur as opposed to a less expensive one if it fulfills the desires of the purchaser.

There was a point where I thought I would have to stop adding to my fur collection simply for the reason that others might think I have gone off the deep end, but no more. Furs help make me feel loved, secure, safe, and happy, and so long as I continue to be fiscally responsible, what difference does it make how many I own? I can certainly think of more personally destructive wasy to spend the same money.

[White Fox]

Hey, as to the original subject of this post. I actually drive a hybrid. Half the time it works on gas and half the time it won't run so I have to push the damned thing.

 

Not sure if that counts.

 

W

[lynxette]

Absolutely White Fox. If your car is only running half the time, your Carbon Footprint is only half as much and that would be a good thing according to some of the theories and a recent oscar nominated film. So the next time you are puching instead of riding, maybe that will make you feel better...but somehow I doubt it.

[frugalfurguy]

Hey White Fox, I'll remember that next time I pedal circles around someone pushing their hybrid. Sometimes in races between tortoise and hare the tortiose does actually enjoy a lead!

 

frugalfurguy

[Joe]

Ciao.

 

Let's talk cars...after too much postponement, I find myself car shopping again. There's too much to tell right now, but I might find myself stateside for a bit longer since our initial work in Rome ended. The choices on the table:

 

1. Toyota Prius. I'm a sucker for the mileage, and I'd most likely be leasing a new one to try it out and get my foot in the door for the next generation, reportedly slated to get up to 90-100 mpg.

 

2. Volkswagen Rabbit/GTI mk.V. Near-Audi fit and finish, 30 mpg and a downsized car for a slightly downsized life. Basic transportation at it best-crafted.

 

3. Honda Element. I've not driven this one yet, but based on the way I used to live in the States (at times I treated my PT Cruisers like pickup trucks), this sounds interesting at 100 cu. ft. of interior space. However, reviews have been mixed, it's got all the style and charisma of a sanded-off packing crate, not to mention questionable mpg (i've heard 16/21 for a 166-hp four?).

 

Thoughts?

 

J.

[Guest]

VW any day of the week .. weekends too

 

My first one was a1960 micro bus with cuved corner windows. Still regret selling it.

 

Now own a 1996 golf with 170,000 and it still gets 30mpg and dricves like a dream. Fast in traffic. Fit and finish better than Detroit iron after 30,000.

 

One 1985 Honda CIVIC which was Lemon yellow and yes it was one. Sold it and got a 1975 Super Bettle. Much better car. Got +30mpg. Fast in traffic.

 

Next car? A GTI or Bug???

 

Well maybe that 1965 Maserati Tipo or 56 Birdcage? Although for shear elegance a 53 Oscar MT-4 is hard to beat. Probably get 30mpg too.

 

OFF

[Tallguy]

Ah, a subject I actually know something about.

 

Let me say: just don't get a Hybrid, the technology is not perfected yet and the cost (+ pollution of actually producing the batteries etc.) is quite a bit higher than it initially seems. Battery tend not to last the life of the car (you need at least 3 sets) and cost a fortune. Plus it looks crap, drives crap, doesn't handle and increases that smug factor which I don't particularly like.

 

A Golf V GTI however is a fantastic car, and the first since since the mk.2 16v to actually bring back some life into the Golf range. 200bhp, great brakes, exceptional streering feel, stylish, practical, relatively frugal and I love the 80 style seats patterns.

 

It really is the only possible choice 8)

[Joe]

Ciao amici,

 

So I'm borrowing my friend's cherry red '06 Audi A4 2.0T (tiptronic) for a week while she's on Memorial Day vacation. I'm averaging about 32 mpg on the highway, although I haven't really opened up yet. The turbo lag is tremendous (more than my previous PT Cruiser GT's 2.4L turbo four), but then again what do I know? I didn't really drive in Italia if you don't count my office's little Fiat Uno I took to IKEA while furnishing my apartment...

 

If I'll be moving Stateside permanently, I'll still be in the market for something that will weather the coming gasoline price hike...and since the government just re-mixed their hybrid MPG numbers (oopsie! heh...), all of a sudden dealers are putting their tails between their legs after they tried to jack down the lease residuals- pricing the Toyota Prius about on level with an Audi A6. Mamma mia! I've heard the phrase "feel-good option" thrown around quite a bit ever since I've crunched the actual numbers when comparing a hybrid to a high-mileage four-banger that takes regular unleaded.

 

Any folks chiming in on this, of course, are welcome - and has anyone had any experience with LeaseTrader.com? It was recommended to me by a college buddy; I can't find any real horror stories online (yet), but I'm still poking around. I've spoken to them on the phone already since I've been back, and they revealed a lot of hidden costs that the website doesn't show. However, as the intermediary and ad service requiring a credit-report and with optional on-site inspection service for vehicles, it doesn't sound bad. Yet.

 

ciaociao

 

J.

[Joe]

Ciao amici...er...

 

Yo. We's in America now, I keep forgettin'.

 

 

Just a few bits; I test-drove the Prius again, and after ten days in an '06 Audi, the seats in the Toyota are positively chiropractic (in the bad way). Yes, the company makes more comfortable seats in its other cars, but weighing in one's mind whether the gas mileage will make you forget about a sore bum...well...that's not worth it to me. The leather option, while slightly better, doesn't even come close to what I had in the PT Cruiser. And being a spoiled brat who occasionally wears fur whilst driving, cloth seats are a no-no: however, I might actually do the sheepskin seat cover thing this time around.

 

Ever since I crunched the real-world numbers (lease rates + actual mileage) of the hybrids, all of a sudden the Nissan Murano (which I drooled over way back at the '02 New York Auto Show) has become a better idea. However, they'll have to offer me a pretty damn good lease rate to get my total ownership cost below the hybrid...a friend of mine owns an '03 Murano and averages between 17-20 mpg. Not bad for an SUV...but enough is enough: gas will hit $5 and I'm not ready for what will happen.

 

My Dad, of course, weighed in on my car situation: he owned Audis for years, and after his garage started to sell Porsches and subsequently treated its Audi customers like garbage, he bought an '05 Subaru Outback. He loves it; I drove the Subie while I was home for the holidays and was pretty impressed. Incentivewise, Subaru is clearing out the last of the discontinued '07 Legacy Wagons...anyone own a Subaru who can report about the mileage/ownership experience? PM me with horror stories. etc. The same goes for hybrids.

 

One more thing...my first car was an 84 Jetta GL. I loved that car...how the mighty have fallen in two decades.

 

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article731958.ece

 

ciaociao

[Joe]

Ciao amici,

 

Looks like I'll be working Stateside for the next few years! One more hop across the pond later this summer, and it's arrivederci-Roma. This means I'll definitely need a car to shlep around everything...that I shlep around. My criteria have become clear - all-wheel-drive, more than 60 cu. ft. of cargo space, achieve 30 mpg (even on the highway with a light foot), and leather seats comfortable for my hereditary Italian body to cope with til' decade's end. No cloth seats - they make the furs shed too much.

 

OFF, I loved the VW GTImkV...great motor/mpg...although my American lifestyle found it too small. The Prius is out, at least for now - until I can rig one with sport seats and extra batteries to achieve 100mpg+. I'll make the fuel-economy-versus-cargo value judgment later. Which brings me to...

 

I found a deeply discounted 07 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon (discontinued for oh-eight...) after an exhaustive online search. This car meets all of my criteria except, of course, that damn design-factor that drew me to a pair of PT Cruisers and even my old '94 fire-engine-red Jeep Cherokee. One has to admit, though...the Subie is not ugly and it's a hell of a lot better looking than the plastic-cladded Outback. I would appreciate any opinions you all might have, positive or negative. Thanks,

 

J.

[JGalanos]

Message deleted.

Edited June 30, 2007 by Guest

[JGalanos]

Message deleted.

Edited June 30, 2007 by Guest