Introduction

[ThoughtFox]

Well, I thought I'd drop in and say hello. I've loved fur since a very early age - actually soft materials in general but especially fur. However, I don't know much about the subject - a little bit about the pro v anti arguments and all of that stuff (I wish fur wasn't such a controversial subject sometimes). My area will probably be the pub, I think, but I am always interested in following the discussions that take place here.

[FrBrGr]

Welcome to The Fur Den ThoughtFox! Whether it's here in the main forum, or in the popular Pub, we hope to see you often, and hope that you will contribute often!

 

[ReFur]

Welcome, ThoughtFox!

 

Nice to have you aboard!

 

Linda

[Guest]

Yes, Welcome. 2 new members on our reopening day. What a great start.

[Worker 11811]

Yes! Welcome ThoughtFox!

 

About your feelings of conflict over fur:

 

Fur is as controversial as YOU make it. Sure, you can fight with people who are vocal about anti-fur issues but remember that to argue and fight about the issue actually legitimizes them. IF you ignore them instead, they are marginalized.

 

However, if you are confronted by an anti-fur idiot there are several things you can do:

 

1) Ignore them. To recognize them gives them power.

 

2) If they get in your face about it, you can point out any one of the many good arguments that you read on this site. But the BEST thing you can say in response to such a confrontation would be something like:

 

"The last time I checked, America was still a free country. If you don't like fur, don't buy it but LEAVE ME ALONE!"

 

3) 99.9% of all confrontations will end peacefully. There are actually VERY FEW recorded cases of people being harmed by anti-fur activists. But, you can still have the right to use all reasonable methods of self defense, including lethal force if necessary, in EVERY state of the union. (And to a more limited degree in other countries.)

 

I'm not going to belabor the point with all kinds of minute details but there's no reason you shouldn't wear fur if you want to. However, if you have any internal conflict about it just ask yourself this question:

 

"If it's okay to raise animals on farms to use them for food, why should raising animals on farms for fur be any different?"

 

Furthermore, people eat rabbits for food. Right? You can't eat the fur. Can you? So, why not make it into fur coats and other wonderful things? What else would you have them do? Throw it away? Wouldn't that be wasteful?

 

Bottom line: There's nothing wrong with fur. Don't let anybody tell you different!

[White Fox]

Indeed welcome ThoughtFox... It is so great to have even more new members on the day that we opened our new server!

 

Welcome home!

 

W

[wallee]

Welcome aboard Thoughfox.

 

I hope you stick around and get to know us.

[ThoughtFox]

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone, and thanks Worker 11811 for your thoughtful advice. I'm from the UK which is, sadly, not a fur loving country so it's nice to meet some enthusiasts here in the den.

[Worker 11811]

Your point is well taken but I'll bet you there are a lot more people from the UK who wear fur than you think there are!

 

But it is no less important to be self confident about fur. Talk about fur with authority and wear fur with pride whenever you can!

[Guest]

Hi thoughtfox and welcome to the den. To say the UK is not a fur loving country is not quite correct. Here you will find dozens of us, male and female, from the UK.

As you may be aware, UNICEF has classed the UK as having a very poor education system with widespread deprivation of educational experience.

In the last twenty years we have sadly become a nation of sheep believing what a lowest common denominator pop culture tells us. Anti fur? No; people just don't know what it is; and PETA have an awful lot of money to throw at the media to get their stupid arguments across.

My girlfriend has worn furs for ten years everywhere; had only one anti comment from a jealous lush, and literally thousands of compliments and pro commens about her furs. Most inquisitive; wanting to touch, find out, and very open because they had no previous experience of it.

 

Anti fur argument? there isn't one.

 

I have been to fur farms in Europe, and worked with native peoples involved in trapping , herding and fur farming all over the world. I am also involved in conservation....as are others here. You will find this site a massive resource for pro fur argument, and when PETAphiles come here they end up either sneaking off apologetically, or even thanking us for our informative site. Tap into the search "fur farm welfare", Inuit, Evenk, Yakut, etc or look at sites in the links like SAGA's, and you will see the real truth about fur. Or maybe take a particular case such as the recent nonsense about racoon dog (post on this page). Or you may like to look at our time line which shows the anti argument as a small recent blip; nay...even perversion..... in the two million year history of furs. Ironic that only now with"alternatives" to animals as resources, do we threaten the planet and destroy massive habitats for non renewable resources.

 

There are approximately 2 million women in the UK who own furs. true many don't wear them any more in the street....but that is more to do with the same reason people don't wear anything that differentiates them from the masses in the street. The UK has become a sleazy, aggressive, intolerant, chip on the shoulder, culture of mediocrity society fostered by the politics of envy of 10 years of new Labour which has actually widened the gap between wealthy and poor. You are as likely to get picked on wearing a burkha, or top hat and tails on the way back from ascot, or get your BMW scratched....as get your fur covred in red paint. In fact more so....the UK police have never recorded an incident of red paint being thrown at a fur.

 

But believe me...come to the Cheltenham racing festival; go to a Hunt Ball; or a smart Hotel/restaurant or even a country pub. Or the theatre. You will see plenty of furs IF its cold enough.

 

Welcome and enjoy!

[Earendil]

Well, if you manage to fight your way down through ToS' blockade of text, -- A hearty welcome from me too!

[FurLoverinFL]

...and one from me too!

 

FLinFL

[ThoughtFox]

10 years of new Labour

 

Is that all it's been? Feels like much longer! I'm not voting Labour again, that's for sure. I'm fed up with this government.

 

when PETAphiles come here they end up either sneaking off apologetically, or even thanking us for our informative site.

 

Is that so? Well there is hope then. It surprises me because I imagined that it would be as hard to change the view of an `animal rights' fanatic as it would be to change a person's religion. I was clearly being too judgemental.

 

Many thanks for your informative post. Thanks Earendil and FurLoverinFL!

[frugalfurguy]

Welcome Thoughtfox!

 

You'll find plenty of UK furlovers on this site, so you're not alone that way. This is also a great place to learn more about furs.

 

I've also had internal conflicts about my love of fur. For many years I did my damnedest to strangle it, but I may's well have tried to strangle myself. That effort of trying to control it diverted my energies from really being myself. I've found that since I've been seeking to accept myself including the way I respond to fur, I've made plenty of positive changes. We're lucky to have company as we carry out this process.

 

frugalfurguy

[Guest]

10 years of new Labour

 

Is that all it's been? Feels like much longer! I'm not voting Labour again, that's for sure. I'm fed up with this government.

 

when PETAphiles come here they end up either sneaking off apologetically, or even thanking us for our informative site.

 

Is that so? Well there is hope then. It surprises me because I imagined that it would be as hard to change the view of an `animal rights' fanatic as it would be to change a person's religion. I was clearly being too judgemental.

 

Many thanks for your informative post. Thanks Earendil and FurLoverinFL!

 

Yes. I think other people can bear me out on this. We have had at least two as I recall PETAphiles visiting here with intention of spying. One girl even apologised and poste some fur pics for us! She said she had never thought about the other side of things.

Yes some are "brainwashed". But many just haven't thought about the other side of the argument. I mean if you haen't been to a fur farm how can you know? They could tell people anything and they would believe it.

Fur farms are often in deep forest, inaccessible mountain, or otherwise quiet areas. This isn't to keep prying eyes away. It isn't to harvest from the wild. It is simply an agricultural activity which requires land which isnt of premium, is for agricultiural use only particularly in areas of beauty, and to keep a nice calm in the area for the animals welfare. One Czech fur farmer I know tried farming in a "brownfields" area and he had to relocate back to the mountains after only a year because the animals were stressed.

I have taken two anti fur people to fur frms and they immediately changed their minds....but you can't do that with everyone. A couple of live webcams on fur farms wre sbotaged by hackers. SAGA's site is good on welfare and ethics...and honest too as they strive for better.

 

But yes; they can change. Look at all the anti fur models of the naked campaign. Elle Macpherson, Cindy Crawford, Naomi Campbell and Linda Evangelista among others have all said how naive and ignorant they were when duped by PETA. Now ALL are fur models; Elle and cindy actually acting as ambassadors for Blackglama. That is because now they HAVE seen the truth is not so bad.

 

In fact; I would argue that ANY vegan who spends a week in the company of an Evenk or Inuit or Cree would have no problems with fur or meat after.

There are many welfare issues with the meat industry...and I have posted a post specially about that. But it doesnt negate the ethics of eating meat...just of how we treat the animals that give us that meat. With respect.

 

At the very basic level...when you buy a fur you pay maybe $100 per pelt minimum. That reflects the degree of husbandry involved; and how much we are willing to pay for it. We value it so much we will wear it second and thrid hand. The poor chicken who goes for $2 also reflects the levl...or lack of it...of animal husbandry involved.