Death; Alienation, Animals; Respect

[Guest]

I have always argued that fur wearers are far more likely to respect the animal that has died for them, than the avreage meat eater. After all; in the most primal way we truly respect furs. I would also expect that we would also value the meat that we eat knowing what it is.

We consider that it is ethical...as long as the animals are treated well....that the animals have died in the case of fur certainly, for something beautiful, and long lasting that consevres energy, sometimes for generations. Indeed all of us here I hope realise that the animals are treated well in most cases; indeed have to be to produce pelts that lets face it are far better quality than even our household pets. That indeed means they are better fed, groomed, weaned, and pampered. I have been to fur farms and believe me it is so.

 

However; I am very uncomfortable with eating meat. The way in which animals welfare in many cases has been hugely compromised for low price for consumers makes it simply unacceptable for me ethically. UNLESS I know different. Basically if I have seen it as a live or dead animal and it was clearly healthy I would eat it. I have no problem with wlesh lamb (though I would prefer if the animal was kept till much older, sold much more expensively) or salt marsh welsh beef. I would have major problems eating UK chickens or turkeys from factory farms.

If you get dark or tough meat, that means the animal was extremely stressed when it died.

 

People do not know this and they dont care if it is cheap. They care not that chickens are bred without beaks so they cant peck each other; or pampered with steroids from birth for 6 weeks in cramped conditions before slaughter in their millions daily. For what? To give us meat three times a day to mak us all fatter than we should be and crapping out the said animals within a few days only having given us a days sustainence.

 

I talked to some Cherokee a couple of years back who after campaigning for years were given back hunting rights to deer in the state of Mississsippi.

With strings. they were NOT allowed to use the hides. The result was they still didn't hunt them; for to waste the hide is sacrilige to them. In fact with most native peopels the hide/pelt is of primary concern...not the meat. THOUGH the meat is also eaten...whether fox, beaver, marten etc etc. They are able to hunt turkey however which they have encouraged back into the wild...as they can use the feathers for pow wow crafts etc.

 

http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/gallery2/arctic/peoples/cree/cr0057-27.htm

http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/gallery2/arctic/peoples/cree/cr0032-16.htm

 

The laides husband is the trapper. D'arcy Moses, the well known designer of furs has Cree heritage, and if you don't hear so much about him lately its because he went back to trapping the animals himself in a traditonal Cree way....so he didnt become alienated from it.

 

NOW. What is all this about. Here goes TOS off on one again you say.

 

Well please bear with me on this.

 

I just watched a programme on UK tv about taking a group of people through from cattle rearing to abbatoir to table. Next week its about lamb.

They showed the people the cow being stunned, throat slit and head cut off. The abbatori workers were good at their job and the cow was dispatched with care precision and it was painless.

Howver; the peoples faces were contorted with disgust. Now this was out of NO sympathy for the animal, but rather, disgust at the rivers of blood that flowed from the cows throat.

Eventually many of them came to terms with it, and when they ate the meat finally, they did it with something new for them: RESPECT.

 

It is my view that the vast majority of urban peple have no such respect from where their meat comes; in fact, most don't even think about it as an animal. It is conveniently packaged, frozen etc so it doesnt even look like meat. Chickens are sold now without giblets, and people wouldn't know what to do with a pheasant.

 

Okay now here is my beef ('scuse the pun)

People who eat meat in this disrespectful way, without care of where the animals came from, can be ANTI fur.

They even wear cheap leather or shearling from sub continent herds who are often treated appalingly badly.

 

Can someone explain to me how they can be anti fur? I mean a vegan , I can almost accept. I mean they are so alienated from the circle of life they dont realise they are a part of it and alternatives are often long term worse for animals; they are past help....but at least they are not hypocrites. However, the meat eating leather wearing ANTI fur person? What is going throught their heads?

[Guest]

ToS, et al;

 

Most kids [pre 30's] don't relate nor many don't actually know where their milk comes from

 

The Dairy Industry had to put on their now famous "Got Milk" campaign and with the "Contented" California cows ad more recently to get fols to identify Milk with Cows

 

So you want us to be with the news of where Meat comes from?

 

Sorry to throw cold water on your tome and great questing question

 

again .. the Anti-Fur campaign is primarily an emotional fund raiser. It has nothing to do with anything else!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

OFF

[Guest]

Yes you are right OFF.

What the hell happened to the education system?

 

Well its the compensation culture you can balme again. Going to a farm used to be part of the curriculum for primary school children. We visited abbatoirs when I was at school too. Zoos, forest and mountain. Many kids learned to ride. Indeed the small underfed kids were even sent to jockeys school!

Now we have a ridiculous education system. Because these are places schools are reluctant to take kids any more. They fear accident.

 

A strange ethos. Insititutionalise kids in a compleltely arteficial environment to teach them about a world they are so clearly alienated from.

 

I mean I was a pen pal of a bushman of the kalahari kid when I was at school. He told me about hunting. Don't schools do that any more? That kid is now a doctor btw. ALL this internet and kids are mor ignorant about the planet and its peoples than any other time in history. Global pop commercial culture and its imperialist morality is all they know.

 

But they don't know milk comes form cows? Teachers should be sacked; full stop.

 

And yes I know that fur is an emotional fund raiser....but that emotion not being transferred to meat shows it is a politik of envy fundraiser too.

 

Incidentally. Several aboriginal people I know who are Christian have raised something that is of interest here. Apparently it says in the Bible that you shouldn't eat meat often. Sunday specifically is okay . Also many religions have periods of fasting and lent and also saying prayer over important meals, particularly over an animal feast. This is a direct link with the past for these people, who say that thanks for meat...and indeed all food... was part of respect for the animals having died, and thanks to god/nature for it. That is sadly lacking in modern culture. Every time I see some tracksuited kids coming out of kfc throwing chicken at each other it appalls me. The marketing of meat as fast fun immediate is partly to blame.

Remeber when we wre kids the meat marketing board used to show herds of well looked after cows? There was a pride there.

 

Now the nearest we come is animated cows WITH MALE VOICES advertising "ittastesabitlikebutter" or whatever.