British Police criticise "Orwellian" brief

[Guest]

Yep the Police are now expressing grave concerns over surveillance cameras etc; on BBC news this morning a senior officer describes it as "Orwellian" and if we go down that route

"I have to ask myself if that is a country I want to live in"

 

They have also expressed unease at policing the Foxhunting ban and smoking bans; and are unhappy with their "taxmen with truncheons" role; expressed strongly in the past.

 

The Police are becoming political tools for an Orwellian state; you have to start listening when they themselves are saying it.

[JGalanos]

Message deleted.

Edited July 2, 2007 by Guest

[Guest]

I also hear that for my upcoming trip over the pond, i'm going to be subjected to retina test & fingerprinted..... On a British OR Irish passport, obviously we're not to be trusted anymore...... what's that about!!

[White Fox]

If you go to Disneyland now you have to give them your fingerprint! Don't be surprised when that happens! I could barely believe it.

 

Actually though they later explained that it is because they believe that our knowledge of building igloos up here in Canada could be a threat to that theme park.

 

W

[LordTheNightKnight]

It's not the cameras, it's how they are used. As long as our rights are still around, we can still do anything around a security camera that we could do in any public place anyway.

 

I know that their existence reminds us of 1984, but so far, any sort of government spying on private property is done mainly by corrupt a$$holes, like Gonzales, not the government entirely.

 

And the Disneyland thing looks to be more for child predators, than distrust of the patrons in general.

[Guest]

I would love to think you are right Lord but when senior British Police are saying that they are "terrified" of what the government is asking them to do, I think we should listen.

[Guest]

It's not the cameras, it's how they are used. As long as our rights are still around, we can still do anything around a security camera that we could do in any public place anyway.

 

 

Missing the point there, it's the 1st step. In the UK thery're EVERYWHERE, even the smaller towns yer can be tracked, as an aside you'd be far better off having the local bobby's in the community, on the street, communicating with locals, showing a presence to deter crime, earning trust & respect & most of all slapping cheeky nippers around the lughole like they did back in the day.....

[Guest]

Indeed furelli . And let the mounted police let rip with traditional baroque dressage movement in crowds of football boundahs as they were intended to:

 

http://www.doublebridlefarm.com/images/Art/CapriolePhoto.jpg

 

Far more effective than a camera and less paperwork.

 

Seriously though that is true. At the moment we are all being made to feel like criminals; and the information stored on each and every one of us is frightening. And the worse thing? They still can't catch terrorists and they don't do anything to pedophiles when they catch them...soft sentences.

 

What they want is a datatbase of our activities wherabouts and taxable petty activities like if we make a few quid at a car boot sale or transfer money for an ebay item or win a few quid on the horses or drop some litter; OR stitch someone up on a petty offence if they are being uppity. Meanwhile, they let the real criminals get away with murder.

[Guest]

It's all about the whole of communtiy though isn' it, as a nipper I was taught to respect yer elders & take responsibility for yer actions & most importantly actions speaker louder than Words! this generation well this e-mail kinda sums it up... itsa an oldie but am sure most will relate to it?

 

CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THE KIDS WHO WERE BORN IN THE

 

1930's, 1940's, 50's, 60's and 70's !!

 

First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us.

 

They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a tin, and didn't get tested for diabetes.

 

 

Then after that trauma, our baby cots were covered with bright colored lead-based paints.

 

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking .

 

As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.

 

Riding in the back of a van - loose - was always great fun.

 

 

We drank water from the garden hosepipe and NOT from a bottle.

 

We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE actually died from this.

 

We ate cakes, white bread and real butter and drank pop with sugar in it, but we weren't overweight because......

 

WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING!!

 

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.

 

No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K.

 

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem .

 

We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at all, no 99 channels on cable, no video tape movies, no surround sound, no mobile phones, no text messaging, no personal computers, no Internet or Internet chat rooms..........WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!

 

 

We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits/legal from these accidents .

 

We played with worms(well most boys did) and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.

 

Made up games with sticks and tennis balls and although we were told it would happen, we did not poke out any eyes.

 

 

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just yelled for them!

 

Local teams had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!!

 

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!

 

This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever!

 

The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.

 

We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned

 

 

hOW TO

DEAL WITH IT ALL!

 

And YOU are one of them!

 

CONGRATULATIONS!

 

Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors, doesn't it?!

[LordTheNightKnight]

If you think a camera is worse than a police presence, you need to look up the history of secret police in dictatorships. Most of the worst of their actions against citizens were done without cameras anyway.

 

This thread crosses the line from libertarianism to paranoia. And if you feel like a criminal from a camera, that's YOU feeling that. Claiming someone is forcing you to feel that, just from some security measures, is a lie. If they actually harassed you, then it would be so, but a camera is only a true worry if you ARE a criminal.

[Guest]

Indeed furelli . And let the mounted police let rip with traditional baroque dressage movement in crowds of football boundahs as they were intended to:

 

 

 

I always liked what the police did at an old firm derby in Glasgey in the 70's, send the Clysdales in first!!!

[Guest]

If you think a camera is worse than a police presence, you need to look up the history of secret police in dictatorships. Most of the worst of their actions against citizens were done without cameras anyway.

 

This thread crosses the line from libertarianism to paranoia. And if you feel like a criminal from a camera, that's YOU feeling that. Claiming someone is forcing you to feel that, just from some security measures, is a lie. If they actually harassed you, then it would be so, but a camera is only a true worry if you ARE a criminal.

 

It's how it all begins, first they sneak in the laws to make it ok to spy on yer every movement, then summit happens to turn everybody either far left or right of centre government & before yer know it further more stringent laws are passed & hey presto...... Get the Rozzers back on the beat, outta their Panda cars, dealing & talking to the local community rather than spying on them & we'll all be far better off, they even say the same themselves.....

[White Fox]

Furelli, you missed the most important one.

 

We actually drank pop from the bottle with NO straw. I remember when the Beatles came to North America the "Sin" they made by drinking pop through a straw. I cannot believe that people actually do that now!

 

W

[LordTheNightKnight]

If you think a camera is worse than a police presence, you need to look up the history of secret police in dictatorships. Most of the worst of their actions against citizens were done without cameras anyway.

 

This thread crosses the line from libertarianism to paranoia. And if you feel like a criminal from a camera, that's YOU feeling that. Claiming someone is forcing you to feel that, just from some security measures, is a lie. If they actually harassed you, then it would be so, but a camera is only a true worry if you ARE a criminal.

 

It's how it all begins, first they sneak in the laws to make it ok to spy on yer every movement, then summit happens to turn everybody either far left or right of centre government & before yer know it further more stringent laws are passed & hey presto...... Get the Rozzers back on the beat, outta their Panda cars, dealing & talking to the local community rather than spying on them & we'll all be far better off, they even say the same themselves.....

 

Slippery slopes always seem so real, unless actual proof is asked for.

 

So I ask you for proof that will actually happen. Not just vague historical connections, but actual proof that is going to happen there.

[ReFur]

Lord,

 

Sometimes you really are rude. Couldn't you say your point of view without destroying their right to differ?

 

Linda

[LordTheNightKnight]

Lord,

 

Sometimes you really are rude. Couldn't you say your point of view without destroying their right to differ?

 

Linda

 

How am I destroying their right to differ? And isn't the differing one, the one who replies, not the one who makes the first claim?

 

And differing is a polite disagreement. They basically say "No, you're wrong," which is basically refusing to look at any other point of view. Not that they have to agree with the others, but look at them.

[ReFur]

Lord,

 

I am sure you don't mean it to sound that way but when you say something like ...it is a lie. That is what I mean.

 

Linda

[Guest]

Ha Ha...

 

Lord look at yer own comment 1st RE. Vague historical connections & your assumption regarding paronia & police states, yeah plenty of facts to back that up..... I would also counter that if a police state in say the 60/70's eastern block had the technology to spy on people via cameras they would of done so..... & saved all the extra petrol they spent on their Lada trailing such alleged criminals.....

 

As for proof, well no-one can read the future but if the police aren't happy with thier current remit in the UK then that says it all for me....

 

PLUS... I now here that for my upcoming trip over the pond I also have to give up details of my credit card activity.....

 

FECK!! I give up!!! it's afair cop Gv'nor, it was me.... ffs....

[Guest]

quote Lord:

 

Slippery slopes always seem so real, unless actual proof is asked for.

 

So I ask you for proof that will actually happen. Not just vague historical connections, but actual proof that is going to happen there.

 

end quote

 

 

Lord.....the most senior British POLICE themsleves are saying this. THAT is what is significant and scarey. They have also expresed extreme reservations about the "politicisation" of themsleves and judiciary, and

being used as "taxmen with truncheons".

 

You know you can get locked up, fined

[LordTheNightKnight]

But where is the proof that is solely due to an increased presence of cameras, instead of a social and government problem, where they just happen to use security cameras to advance their agendas?

 

That's what I was getting at in the first place. You are blaming the tools, not the users.

 

And that is truly stupid, for it solves nothing. And if you intend to truly solve it, address the REAL PROBLEM.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, misdirected blame is all too common, so many things are never truly solved.

[Guest]

As I said lord. The POLICE are saying cameras are THEY are saying (not us) they are being misused and their brief is "orwellian" and sinister. They aren't saying what they have been told to do but they don't like it; and say it has nothing to do with crime as such.

They specifically cited cameras being positioned in rural areas with NO crime problem at vast expense. And then raised eyebrows.

[LordTheNightKnight]

As I said lord. The POLICE are saying cameras are THEY are saying (not us) they are being misused and their brief is "orwellian" and sinister. They aren't saying what they have been told to do but they don't like it; and say it has nothing to do with crime as such.

They specifically cited cameras being positioned in rural areas with NO crime problem at vast expense. And then raised eyebrows.

 

Do you know what misuse means? They are not saying they are bad themselves, but how they are used. If a bush of a$$holes are using them that way, then it's the fault of the a$$holes, not the cameras.

[Guest]

Yes....but we the Police are SAYING that the assholes are misusing the cameras and them!

 

No one is blaming the cameras as such. Surveillance against real criminals IS important.

 

Its the same argument as gus dont kill people rappers do and I agree with you. Don't ban the use of surveillance; jts question why it is being used......that is exactly waht the Police are saying. Why are the cameras in places with no crime?

[Guest]

 

Yep we used to get a right kicking from police horses if we misbehaved. Now they let Millwall fans pelt Police horses with bricks and just film them doing it in case the thugs get found to be claiming benefit when they are obviously working to be able to aford a

[Guest]

Why are the cameras in places with no crime?

 

Cause that's where the money is yer feckin Twonk!