British Police criticise "Orwellian" brief

[Guest]

Yes. This government want to criminalise the landowners; find out who is hunting; who has 4x4s; who is using red diesel.

[LordTheNightKnight]

Yes....but we the Police are SAYING that the assholes are misusing the cameras and them!

 

No one is blaming the cameras as such. Surveillance against real criminals IS important.

 

Its the same argument as gus dont kill people rappers do and I agree with you. Don't ban the use of surveillance; jts question why it is being used......that is exactly waht the Police are saying. Why are the cameras in places with no crime?

 

I guess I was misinterpreting your comments at first. Even if they might have been a bit vague, I do apologize.

[Guest]

No probs. Its the same as my use of the word fascist and nazi. I don't mean they are actually organistaions of right wing racist loonies behind them. Rather that the justification of restructure of society, shift of power, participation of massive corporations, land redistribution , excuse that it is being done for some greatr good on behalf of the opressed, originas of ideology in non christian (old power base) morality, use of propaganda and violence in the belief that the end utopia justifies the means, has massive parallels with fascism.

 

I don't mean they are suddenly going to reveal swastikas and start killing jews.

 

Remember that the swastika is a symbol of happiness and symmetry.

Remember "have a nice day" was the invention of National socialist corporations; remeber that Volkswagen mens "the peoples car" and it spurned cars for the wealthy. Many of these principles are not on the face of it bad to many. They also had NO intention of killing the Jews. They were repatriating them to Isreal on cruise ships in some comfort. Remeber too that their land resdistribution and suspension of democratic objections to planning etc allowed massive scoail reconstruction, fabulous autobahns etc.

 

THAT is how seductive it was; because it is only now we can look back and realise what evil it masked.

 

So you may want to think about the latest idea of the Labour Governemnt:

 

They plan to get rid of planning regulations. Great you may think, I don't need planning permission for my solar pannelled roof or conservatory. But before you get carried away read the small print. Basically multi national supermarkets will be able to build wherever they want without planning objections.

See/ While they tax rural peoples with 4x4s for being "un green", and ban foxhunting on grounds of "decency", they actually have a massively habitat damaging programme for the benefit of huge companies and detriment of the old landowners and rural classes.

 

It is left wing social engineering; petit borgeois "enlightened"morality, and unbridled market economics for the giant corporations, and the devleopment of A Police state to monitor dissent.

Its fascism.

 

And as if that isn't Orwellian enough, you have Gordon Brown openly talking about the New World Order; setting down a moral and economic and possibly even militarist imperialist plan for Africa (rather like Mussolini said of ethiopia) AND then we are told that we are NOT at war with socialism any more; China ae now our economic patners, and the real enemy all along was Islam. very reminding of the Easatasia Eurasia Oceana idea. We are treating distinct social groups like moslems and smokers dreadfuly by marginalising, demonising and criminalising them too of course; with the crassest of absurd propaganda.

[JGalanos]

Message deleted.

Edited June 30, 2007 by Guest

[ReFur]

8)

[silverfox57de]

....I think to know the ultimative candidate for that job..........he would be available from June 28. on 8)

[Guest]

Indeed silverfox thankyou for volunteering.

 

Your first job is to write a letter to Angela Merkel In german please:

 

"May I remind you that German Law prohibits all icons and vestiges of the National Socialist movement. Smoking bans being one of them I would suggest."

[sta]

Yes. This government want to criminalise the landowners; find out who is hunting; who has 4x4s; who is using red diesel.

 

Utter rot,

 

These are criminal activities in this country. Why should I pay 90% odd tax on my fuel like everyone else does, whilst people who have access to red diesel for agricultural purposes not pay the same taxes as everyone else has to- nothing to do at all with being a landowner. What about marine diesel? Will Barnacle Bill now be on your 'People Persecuted by Blairite Nanny State Socialist Pinko Nazis?" The only thing you listed that is not a criminal offence here is owning a 4x4. And in my opinion you have to be pretty mad to own a 4x4 unless you live in the country, noisy, slow, bad handling old dogs! Then again, the kind of 4x4 I'm used to is a beaten up old Suzuki form the 80's full of junk, straw and poo! I'm definitely not a 4x4 fascist BTW, considering I drive a Mondeo ST220 the whole economy thing would be a bit hypocritical...... I'm quite happy to leave Prius drivers at the lights, deafened by my V6 roar and choking on my 20 mpg fumes........

[ReFur]

What is red diesel?

 

L

[silverfox57de]

"red Diesel" is coloured tax free diesel gasoline for agricultural purposes.

 

In Germany the customs have a big eye on that - if they catch you using red diesel for your private car or normal trucks you will get serious problems.

 

ToS.....i think you got me wrong. The ultimate candidate as your secretary I meant one from your country who has much time left from June 28. on

Perhaps that special one person will understand all your thoughts

Edited May 22, 2007 by Guest

[Guest]

Yes. This government want to criminalise the landowners; find out who is hunting; who has 4x4s; who is using red diesel.

 

Utter rot,

 

These are criminal activities in this country. Why should I pay 90% odd tax on my fuel like everyone else does, whilst people who have access to red diesel for agricultural purposes not pay the same taxes as everyone else has to- nothing to do at all with being a landowner. What about marine diesel? Will Barnacle Bill now be on your 'People Persecuted by Blairite Nanny State Socialist Pinko Nazis?" The only thing you listed that is not a criminal offence here is owning a 4x4. And in my opinion you have to be pretty mad to own a 4x4 unless you live in the country, noisy, slow, bad handling old dogs! Then again, the kind of 4x4 I'm used to is a beaten up old Suzuki form the 80's full of junk, straw and poo! I'm definitely not a 4x4 fascist BTW, considering I drive a Mondeo ST220 the whole economy thing would be a bit hypocritical...... I'm quite happy to leave Prius drivers at the lights, deafened by my V6 roar and choking on my 20 mpg fumes........

 

 

Because they are using huge amounts of Police time and effort that would be better devoted to crime. Let customs officers do it not the Police. And The spending of money on surveillance of people that may be avoiding paying revenue to the exchequer does not square well with the Judiciary intructions to NOT prosecute/give sentences/fines to criminals thieving from individuals.

 

I am not saying that people using red diesel shouldn't be prosecuted; I just don't think so much effort and resources should be used on it. In fact; I have NEVER even seen it and believe that while it is used by a tiny minority, it is a symptom of government paranoia.

 

As for 4x4s etc, IF they guzzle more petrol, the owners ALREADY pay more tax don't they?

 

And foxhunting has only ever been a crime in the Third Reich. It is obscene to spent huge amounts of police time on making sure a fox is flushed propaerly; just to back up the surveillance of RSPCA scum. Who know it appears have taken to taking peoples cats and destroying them and returning them to the owners in bin bags. Scum.

Edited May 22, 2007 by Guest

[Guest]

"red Diesel" is diesel specially coloured for agricultural purposes.

 

In Germany the customs have a big eye on that - if they catch you using red diesel for your private car or normal trucks you will get serious problems.

 

ToS.....i think you got me wrong. The ultimate candidate as your secretary I meant one from your country who has much time left from June 28. on

Perhaps that special one person will understand all your thoughts

 

 

 

Blair

[Guest]

& there's me thinking "Red diesel" was a dash of black in me glider....

[LordTheNightKnight]

Indeed silverfox thankyou for volunteering.

 

Your first job is to write a letter to Angela Merkel In german please:

 

"May I remind you that German Law prohibits all icons and vestiges of the National Socialist movement. Smoking bans being one of them I would suggest."

 

Only if it's a poster made by the nazis. No matter how much you believe it works, guilt by association does not prove something is bad. Basically, if you could NEVER bring up the nazis banning smoking again, could you STILL prove banning smoking is wrong (I could)?

 

If you can, then why do you need to bring up nazis in the first place? We don't consider genocide and invasions bad because they nazis did it. We consider them bad because they are bad. So anything less could stand on its own, as good or bad, as well.

[Guest]

If you can, then why do you need to bring up nazis in the first place? We don't consider genocide and invasions bad because they nazis did it. We consider them bad because they are bad. So anything less could stand on its own, as good or bad, as well.

 

Because historical precedent in the origins of the idea that smoking may be bad for you; the manipulation of statistics with glaringly obvious ignoring of other variables; the funding of medicine along the lines of prevention not cure, and the way the state thinks it has the right to control the health of the individuals body, the crass propaganda, the demonisation of smokers as a threat to others, and the way the mass of people have fallen for it; are all remarkably similar to Nazi Germany.

 

I could have used the example of Ivan the teriible; but as he executed people for smoking the example is not releavnt as there are marked differences.

 

IF you see a set of behaviour which charctaerises a group , while you have to be wary of differences and cultural/historical context, it is perfectly reasonable to draw ccomparisons.

 

SO for example, the Astecs MAY have ebben following a similar rationale for human scarifice as the civilasation that lived there a thousand years before; albeit the hsitorical context was different.

 

The nazis were eveil NOT because of genocide; we didn't know ....and they didn't know....that was an option when WE declared war on them.

 

The whole idea of the state being more imprtatnt than the individual in terms of dictating morality, health, economic goals, ect etc was considered evil by the British and for most of us those things still are. Hence, we don't like it when those sets of principles emerge again. I am NOT syaing they ar suddenly going to start wearing swastikas, merly that such a progarmme for the nation is AS evil as the NAzis and has a similar raison d'etre.

 

Of course if you prescribe that ONLY the racist and genocide part of Nazism was immoral, you will not see where I am coming from.

 

The state should NOT control the destiny of its peoples. Rather, we should control the destiny of the governemnt. And that is where indeed the similarity to fascism ends. Because we can at the moment get rid of them at the next election.

 

I am notvsyaing they are excatly like the nazi partyt; but tehre are most definite parallels and most definite similarities in origin of thinking and vision of utopia; and with it the alliances of corporations in conspiracy.