JGalanos Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 http://www.independent.ie/opinion/throw-a-logical-argument-in-my-face-not-a-paint-can-1214889.html And activists in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I think the "battle" has shifted to Europe and Tne British Isles in specific because that's where they can get the audience and get away with it now. If the lone "Protester" in front of Ungar Furs yesterday is any indication of what is happening here then I think it's all over but for a sigh of relief in the US. I'm still curious why he and his buddy who showed up after the store was closed [2PM] why they were taking a picture of the closed wrought iron gate at the strore entrance? I was the only one around and across the street. I had come back for my car at the parking lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Fox Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I'm still curious why he and his buddy who showed up after the store was closed [2PM] why they were taking a picture of the closed wrought iron gate at the strore entrance? Something to tell the owner about. If he knows who the guy is he could probably send the police after him with just that evidence. W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 There's a long history and the Police are as useful as tits on a Bull when it comes to this sort of thing in Portland. Schumacher got his in a wringer because of his bad judgment and bsd business practices. See the Oregonian list of articles. http://search.oregonlive.com/sp?aff=100&keywords=Schumacher+Furs&x=13&y=11 Horst's response is no response .. ignoring them. That seems to be most effective. I will tell him about the photographing incident however. The Oregonian articles on his shop have disappeared from the archives?? I have corresponded with one of the Reporters at The Oregonian OFF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worker 11811 Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I have been thinking about this for a while, now. I am considering the merits of treating protesters like these with open ridicule and scorn much the way citizens of "The World State" treated "John the Savage" in Aldous Huxley's novel, A Brave New World. I think we should not engage these people in debate in any way. To debate them is to give them recognition. Recognition gives them legitimacy. Legitimacy gives them a foothold from which to continue their campaign. Instead, we should all point our fingers at them, throw our heads back and laugh out loud. These people gain personal gratification by feeling like they are part of a powerful movement, much the way Islamist terrorists gain by fighting against Western society. In fact, I believe that the drive to belong to Islamist groups is the same drive that pushes people to join groups like P∂TA. In short, people do things like this to make themselves feel good. If we can deny them their feelings of well-being and belonging we can prevent these ideas from even gaining a foothold. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Fox Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 I do think that you are right. Even if we debate them and consider ourselves the landslide winner of that debate, they will consider that THEY are the winners. They would never even remotely think that their arguments could lose. Probably ignoring them will bug them worst of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worker 11811 Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Ignoring them is good. But if ignored, they will just go find some other weak-minded individual or group of individuals to harass. We need to build up resistance to them within the general population. Remember, the great majority of people couldn't care one way or the other. Yes, they think that harvesting animals for fur is 'distasteful' in some ways but they will tolerate it. They don't mind cows and chickens being killed for food. And, for a luxury item like fur, they will tolerate it. It is the P∂TA-freaks who push their agenda upon an unsuspecting, indifferent population. THAT is where the battle will be won. The way to win that battle is to make the other side look like kooks. Make P∂TA-freaks LOOK like the freaks they really are. Show them to be the unsavory people they are in reality. But, most of all, we need to show the population, in general, that they are people not to be taken seriously. Just as the World Controller did in the novel, John the Savage was made out to be a laughing stock and a freak so that the population, in general, would not take him seriously. Secondarily, we need to prevent would-be P∂TA-freaks from taking solace by joining up with the group. People need to know that, if they join up with them, they will be seen as laughable outsiders. Laughter, derision and scorn are effective weapons to this end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Several points in support of this thread of an argument. One of Horst's customers, an older guy like myself came in the store commenting on how he laughs at the protesters as he comes in. I did much the same when I came in though apparently not quite as strongly as the other guy I understand it is in Horst's best interest to ignore them. The fact that there is just the one scuzzy guy is an indication of just how unimportant this has all gotten for the public. They do play to the audience and if there is no audience then they don't put forth much effort. Logistics is an issue here too. Schumacher Furs was just across the street from the downtown Nordstrom Store with a lot of traffic. Ungar Furs is several blocks away in a not so trafficked area just a block from the Freeway Cut. It's the Western edge of that part of downtown so they don't have much of an audience. Not very good exposure for demonstrations. Having talked to the Reporter for the Oregonian that covers that 'beat' he is deliberately NOT giving them press space in an effort to give Portland a less crazy image. It has a crazy enough image without the truly negative and derogatory stuff PeTA brings to the stage. In fact the Reporter was upset with me that I was thinking he was pro PeTA. These sorts of latent attitudes may be far more prevelant than we think. OFF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGalanos Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 I think the "battle" has shifted to Europe and Tne British Isles in specific because that's where they can get the audience and get away with it now. If the lone "Protester" in front of Ungar Furs yesterday is any indication of what is happening here then I think it's all over but for a sigh of relief in the US. I'm not sure it's over here in the US ... But I think it's definitely better than it used to be. As an example (of "not over"), there is an animal rights group planning a march in downtown Chicago on "Fur Free Friday" (day after Thanksgiving). Last year the march (allegedly) drew ~160 people and they are hoping for more than that this year. And as I have referenced previously, last winter I encountered a protest outside the Burberry's on Michigan Avenue. As I walked by I was wearing my ranch mink jacket and another lady was wearing a full length ranch mink coat and neither of us was confronted (for the record, I was doing some "power shopping" that afternoon and definitely not in the mood to confront them). I have wondered more than once whether I would have "escaped" unscathed if I had been wearing something more dramatic (like my 57" long crystal fox coat with ~7' sweep). One thing that surprised me about the Burberry's protest (which was small ... only about 8-10 people) was that the male/female ratio was roughly 50/50. I (apparently naively) thought females would have comprised the vast majority of the anti-fur crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 In protest groups like these the guys are the Bulldog Leaders. It's definitely a sexist and male dominated arrangement where the "girls" provide the emotional energy for the guys to show their stuff. The lone guy was such a feeble presence without his female emotional support. OFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worker 11811 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Last year the march (allegedly) drew ~160 people and they are hoping for more than that this year. Yeah, and I'm hoping to have a closet full of fur coats this year! Of COURSE they're going to say that. But that doesn't mean it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGalanos Posted November 20, 2007 Author Share Posted November 20, 2007 http://blogs.knoxnews.com/knx/pickle/archives/2007/11/giving_fur_a_br.shtml FFF (Fur Free Friday) ... From Chicago to Knoxville ... I'm not likely to encounter any protesters over the holiday weekend ... Hopefully you won't either ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGalanos Posted November 28, 2007 Author Share Posted November 28, 2007 Protestors continue fur-free Friday tradition Nov. 23, 2007, 4:09 p.m. CST Another holiday tradition is protesting, and today was no different along Michigan Avenue. In the early afternoon, roughly 50 anti-fur protestors had stopped in front of the Adriana Furs boutique and started chanting, "50 killed animals for one fur coat." They called the event "Fur-free Friday." To make sure the display didn't turn as ugly as the pictures of the skinned animals the protestors put on their signs to emphasize their point, Chicago's Finest tagged along on bikes, Segways and on foot. The protestors were loud but they posed no threat, so it was a surprise to see more than a dozen police officers along the fringes of the protest. It appeared excessive and possibly more disturbing to passersby than the tragic pictures the protestors waved. Seeing the tumult up ahead, a woman walking with her family wisely decided to cross the street. She was wearing a fur. Looks like they had a smaller group than they hoped ... But a vocal (and no doubt annoying) group nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGalanos Posted November 30, 2007 Author Share Posted November 30, 2007 http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/11/fur_protests_at_two_malls_toda.html They hit Cleveland too. Give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worker 11811 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 So, I see a grand total of SIX people in that article. And they were OUTSIDE the mall... mainly because mall security would kick them out if they did. But, basically, that means nobody saw them. The street leading into the Beachwood mall is a busy 4-lane highway. Anybody who DID see them would never make the association. I should have gone there to laugh at them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGalanos Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 Maybe 50 people in Chicago ... Maybe 6 people in Cleveland ... At least one person in Knoxville ... I'm kinda irritated that they're out and about and getting publicity. I'm gonna be in Chicago a lot this winter. They better leave moi alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worker 11811 Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 Your best course of action, if you are accosted, is to ignore them. If they keep at it, you tell them "Go away!" then turn around and walk away. If they follow, you tell them to go away again then run. Warn them that you'll call the cops or, better still, don't warn them and call the cops right away. If THAT doesn't stop them, you are now free to exercise your constitutional right to self defense by whatever means you believe are necessary to prevent harm to yourself and those around you. The fact that you verbally warned them TWO TIMES and you tried to extricate yourself from the situation but THEY continued the chase is key. You have to show that YOU are the good guy. By making every reasonable effort to get out of the situation without using force you show that you wanted to end the situation peacefully that they did not. There was mention in one of the posts above that a woman crossed to the other side of the street to avoid confrontation. The best thing anybody can do! On the other hand, if I ever find myself in a situation where it's either me or them, you can bet it won't be me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGalanos Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071124/NEWS/711240325 One employee said she felt there are bigger issues, like domestic violence, "not a big, scary mink coat." At least one of the FFF groups received a mixed reception! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGalanos Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071108/COL23/711080337/1081 If you're opposed to fur, don't buy one. A much more practical way to protest, in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Fox Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 http://blogs.knoxnews.com/knx/pickle/archives/2007/11/giving_fur_a_br.shtml I've hassled them just a bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGalanos Posted December 9, 2007 Author Share Posted December 9, 2007 I've hassled them just a bit! Good! Because it looks like they (the activists) are intent on hasslin' the likes of us this season! Season to date there have been protests (that I'm aware of) in the Midwest, Northeast, Southeast, and Northwest. http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071209/GJNEWS_01/712090067 About a dozen protesters stood on the street in front of Dino's Fur Outlet Saturday, holding signs with gruesome pictures of skinned animals and anti-fur slogans in gloved hands for the third consecutive week on Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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