Life After People

[Guest]

An interesting program on The History Channel that postulates what the world would be like if we humans all somehow vanished.

 

I think it should be required watching for all Animal Rights folks.

 

The fact that most of our pets would revert to their original types with most not able to survive a year without us and the former major predators would come back big time is a lesson that the AR folks don't seem to comprehend in their emotion driven agenda.

 

What was not covered in the show .. what would happen to all those non pet domestic animals, the cattle, the herds of sheep and pens full of pigs.

 

Well the pigs would revert and do well but the cattle and sheep would quickly cause a massive population growth of wolves, lions and bears.

 

The program also framed the whole issue of what we have done to the earth and just how shallow it is in the grand scheme of things.

 

What does this have to do with furs you may ask?

 

The previous allusion to the AR folks is one point. How dare they to presume authority over nature and human needs just to satisfy their rather shallow emotional whims.

 

The other as to how we have reshaped the natural order to our own in the most presumptuous manner of all. Raising animals for fur among them.

 

A divergent program on the domestication of the dog .. well the dog it seems chose us. Not the other way around. Not that we didn't instantly take advantage of the situation. The dog became necessary for our survival.

 

In this same program talking about the key element being aggressive behavior related to flight distance. Some Russian animal breeders took this behavior in foxes and bred the least aggressive Foxes together and bred tame Foxes that are as tame as dogs. The Foxes began to display new physical characteristics such as a shorter snout with multi colored and thicker fur.

 

Our actions sometimes have unintended consequences. The AR folks should consider that. It plays out every time they do something truly stupid.

 

OFF

[White Fox]

Off

 

Not trying to argue your point here or bring it off topic but indeed trying to reinforce it.

 

Members may or may not know of one cycle in nature of many. I wish that I could remember how this works exactly. But parts of it is long gone in my memory. I'll explain though as best I can with the little that I can remember.

 

We all know I am sure the animals Ground Hog (Woodchuck), and Fox. As I recall the Coyote and Wolf are the other animals involved here though not absolutely certain. These animals are involved in a rabies cycle.

 

But anyhow, within this cycle Ground Hogs become quite plentiful, Then Fox in turn, and then quite simply the predator (Coyote and wolf) become plentiful from this great food supply. Thus, the ground hog for instance begins to disappear as they are being hunted almost to extinction by the coyote and wolf. However then this over population of wolf and coyote are taken down again to low levels by Rabies. So, the groundhog for instance begins to grow in population again. (Again, there is more to this than I can remember, but this is the basics.)

 

What I am trying to say is that indeed you are correct. We do not really know what would happen if we were not here. But we do know for certain that things would be very different. Domestic animals as you say would probably soon die out. Even the lack of someone for them to love is so inbred into them now that, that alone would go a long way to killing them off.

 

Some things would revert back to somewhat the way that they were. Others would not. And let's face it. The whole in these theories is "If a catastrophe took the human race what animals would it take?" If a disease did that it would probably mutate to some animals, etc. So, for instance if the GroundHog was removed from the cycle above, that cycle would be forever changed.

 

Interesting things to think about indeed. It is so strange. Much of the animal rights movement is based on the "Bamby" concept. But Bamby never existed and never will. A whole movement based on something that never even existed!

 

W

[Guest]

My favorite "Bambi" was the film short "When Bambi Meets Godzilla".

 

It lasts about a minute. Most of it is sweet music with Bambi dancing around on screen till Godzilla's foot stomps Bambi flat.

 

A true metaphor of the real Bambi.

 

 

 

 

 

OFF

[White Fox]

Actually I liked "Debby does Bambi" myself. I found it more educational.

 

W

[frugalfurguy]

I'd never heard about that set of balances involving rabies, woodchucks, foxes, coyotes and wolves, White Fox. Intriguing. Ultimately, there are other factors at play, too, I imagine.

 

Our own species is a most peculiar beast. And may I not bore people with this. As I see it, both the love of furs and the loathing of them are deeply rooted in human nature. They each contain elements both of the grandeur and folly of our cultures--maybe even of our genetic essence.

 

I wonder what it's like as a woodchuck to hear coyotes yap. I wonder how different that is from what it's like for foxes and coyotes to hear a trapper pass through the woods with traps clinking against each other. As a bicyclist, I wonder if it's a whole lot different from hearing a car overtaking me. Potentially any of them could be the end of me. But from long experience, I've concluded the probabilities of that are very slim. All the same, it'd just take one to leave me dead or maimed.

 

Back to OFF's topic. We certainly do have a long shadow in the web of life. And the relationship between our cultures and the web of life on which they depend bear a great deal more humble study than we've been willing to give it. We're so quick to lapse into dreams that everything will be okay if only--and the next notion we have of dominating some piece of the system or other that we don't like.

 

Of course, too, the question is rather moot unless we're also considering what means would lead to human extinction. I'd imagine different species would fare differently depending on what did us in. Nuclear winter? Rising sea levels, severe and extreme weather conditions forecast in many global warming models? Cosmic collision? In each case there'd be other factors to consider. What other species might succumb along with us? What species would be best adapted to thrive in the new conditions?

 

As so often, OFF, you suggest something to stir up more questions. Thanks!

 

frugalfurguy

[Guest]

One part of the program was particularly intriguing where they visit the area around Chernobyl. The radiation levels are down to where habitation is once again possible.

 

The infrastructure is so deteriorated it would have to be leveled and rebuilt so I suppose it isn't worth it. Plus there is the PR. Who would move back? Like moving back to Love Canal which is still badly polluted.

 

The Boar and Red Deer have significantly higher populations than anywhere else in Europe and this is after a significant area of Forrest was killed from radiation. It recovered quickly and the wildlife returned right after.

 

There are certainly fur bearing animals that have returned with similar increases.

 

Though a 'local' event it does demonstrate that in a broader environmental view [people excluded] most species have great resiliancy.

 

OFF

[Guest]

Journalist Alan Weisman wrote a book about what would happen to the Earth if humans all of a sudden disappeared. The book is called The World Without Us. He tells of the subway tunnels in NYC flooding because the pumps that remove water from those tunnels would not be working, the radioactive waste left behind, the untold tons of plastic garbage floating in the oceans, and many other things. The book has gotten great reviews and is listed as #1 on Time Magazine's 10-best list of non-fiction for 2007. I myself haven't read the book yet.

[Guest]

That was animated in the show as well.

 

 

OFF