someone to talk to?

[Lil Dragonfly]

Today my therapist found out that I am a fur lover.

 

Let's just say that he spent the rest of the hour being insensitive and hurtful

 

I won't say any more, as this is a public forum. But, is there anyone here who is willing to talk to me about it? Its time for me to stop crying and find a like-minded person to rant and rave to.

 

(mods, feel free to delete this thread if it is inappropriate.)

[Lil Dragonfly]

(does this belong here, or in the main fur section? you guys can move it if you think it belongs elsewhere)

[Earendil]

What do you mean your therapist was unsensitive and hurtful about it?

 

Aren't you paying him to be insightful and reflective towards you?

[White Fox]

Blu...

 

Wow, I wish that I could get on chat later tonight, but I am not sure that I can...

 

You need to make a vow to yourself to NEVER go back to this guy. NEVER!!!

 

If this guy is far enough behind the times to do something like this, he should NOT be into such a job. You need to just remember how many members that we have here! Think of the good things right now and not the bad. Then, find someone else to talk to who knows what they are doing in their field. This quack - and that is not a strong enough word - does NOT!

 

Remember, that we are all here for you.

 

White Fox

 

***Edit - Previous message was posted at exactly the same time as Earendil posted. Thanks Earendil. You are exactly right my friend!

[Guest]

The idea of a psychologist or psychiatrist "understanding" our fondness for fur is humorous on its face

 

I have this image of the psychiatrist in the series 'MONK' trying to deal with this issue. It's humorous and clearly a joke in the series but I'm sure in real life such a confrontation would play out much the same with the psychiatrist being the butt of the joke.

 

Consider yourself lucky if you came out of that with a sense of humor over the situation because serious it certainly could never be ... for the psychiatrist.

 

OFF

[Worker 11811]

I am sorry to hear your therapist treated you so harshly.

 

Sometimes, a therapist might give you a hard time because he's trying to get you to understand something about yourself. That can be a valid therapeutic technique.

 

However, moralizing is NEVER a good therapeutic technique!

A therapist's personal beliefs and opinions should NEVER enter into a discussion with a client!

NOT EVER!

 

If your therapist did something like that, he could very well be treading the line between valid therapy and malpractice!

 

I'm sorry to rant but this is something I feel strongly about.

 

I want to tell you something about myself. I am the child of an alcoholic. My father died of alcoholism when I was a teenager.

I had issues with alcohol and drugs when I was in college.

I went through almost four years of therapy in order to get myself through it.

Although I can't say, "I know how you feel.", I can certainly empathize with you. (Only YOU really know how you feel. )

 

If your therapist tried to tell you that it is wrong to be turned on by fur he is dead wrong.

 

To be sexually excited at sight of another person wearing fur is not wrong. It may be an uncommon thing but it is neither good or bad.

 

If you are a person who can not get sexually excited unless there is fur, there may be cause for concern but, again, this is not "wrong." This is probably an uncommon thing but it is not necessarily wrong.

 

If you are a person who ONLY gets sexually excited by fur and not by other people, this is likely to be problematic but, if the person has no other underlying psychological issues, this is not "wrong", per se. A person who is not turned on by other people but, instead, gets turned on by inanimate objects, is a very uncommon.

 

If you are not doing anything illegal or immoral... for instance:

* Stealing furs.

* Committing crimes to get money to buy fur.

* Engaging in or soliciting illegal prostitution in order to obtain fur. (Prostitution is legal in some places.)

* Engaging in sexual acts with minors or mentally incompetent people.

* Taking advantage of vulnerable people for sexual or other immoral reasons.

* Committing sexual acts in inappropriate places or at inappropriate times.

* Committing sexual acts with (or in the presence of) others who are not consenting adults.

* Encouraging others to commit illegal or immoral acts.

* Habitually abusing drugs or alcohol.

 

If you do not do any of those things (or anything similar) and you do not hurt yourself or other people, there is no reason you can't have as much fur as you want.

 

If you live a healthy life:

* Go to work or school.

* Take care of your home.

* Take care of your physical health.

* Pay your bills or stay current with your studies in school.

* Have a reasonably productive social life.

 

If you do all these things and none of the things above there is NOTHING wrong with having sex in, on, with or around fur.

 

If you do not do anything illegal or patently immoral it is wrong for anybody to tell you fur is bad!

The only person who should make that decision is YOU!

 

If you have personal conflicts about fur:

* If you are drawn to fur but feel bad about it afterward.

* If you feel compelled to have sex with fur or people wearing fur.

* If you feel like you can't stop yourself or if you feel "out of control" when you are around fur.

* If fur seems to "make" you do things that are illegal, immoral, dangerous or unhealthy.

* If you can't stop thinking about fur all of the time.

* If you do things with fur to the exclusion of other things in your life such as work, school, socializing and taking care of your responsibilities.

* If you have strange thoughts about fur.

* If you just feel like, "Bad things always happen to me when I am around fur."

 

If any of these things (or similar) are true for you then it is important that you talk to your therapist about them. You might have emotional or psychological problems centered around fur which you will need to resolve.

 

Maybe you will think about your life and decide that fur is not for you. It is quite possible. But the bottom line is that it is YOU who decide that! NOT your therapist!

 

Your therapist's job is to HELP you decide! He is NOT supposed to decide for you!

 

There are two notable exceptions:

* If you are in a therapist's care because a judge has decided that you are a danger to yourself or another person. (You have been "committed" or were involved in a crime with psychological underpinnings.)

* If you are a minor under 18 (or 21) years of age and your parents have placed you under the care of a doctor.

 

If either one or both of those things are true, a therapist CAN tell you what to do.

But, even then, a really good therapist wouldn't do it unless he thought you were in danger.

I think I can safely assume that none of those conditions exist. Right?

 

This is a lot for you to digest. I don't expect you to read it and understand it all in one day.

 

But there is one thing I think it would be good for you to do:

The next time you go to the therapist, you should tell him that you were upset about what he said.

 

Say something like...

"Dr. (Jones), you made me feel [sad/angry/afraid, etc.] when you said..." (whatever he said that made you feel bad.)

 

Tell him WHY you feel bad.

 

If you want to print out what I have written and use it when you go to the doctor, you have my permission to do so. (BTW: You are not obliged to show it to him if you don't want to.)

 

Make him explain to you why he thinks fur is bad. Make him say, "Fur is bad because..." (whatever his reasons are.)

 

If he can not explain it to you to your satisfaction, you have the perfect right to walk out the door and never come back.

 

I don't know what happened in your therapy session but I think your doctor was trying to get you to think about something. I believe he may have been trying to make you feel "uncomfortable" in order to get you to understand something about yourself. Sometimes it is good for therapists to do this. (Not all the time! Only some times!)

 

I'm not a doctor. I am only a person who has been through some of the same things you are going through. I am only thinking in relation to my own experiences. I can't tell you what to do. But, if you believe that you are incompatible with your therapist, you have the right to leave. If that's what you think... what you HONESTLY think... it is probably better if you leave this guy and find somebody else who is a better "therapeutic match" for you.

[Earendil]

Worker.. I would have settled with "Fuck off, You're fired".. Guess I'm no diplomacy specialist.

 

In any regard, a therapist is a person who is supposed to be your mirror and guiding light in hard times. I therefore suggest that you reconsider your counselling-arrangement and try to find someone worthy of their certificates. You should never have to feel bad about having your furfetish. It makes sense to anyone with half a brain if you ask me, all political incorrectness aside. It's soft, warm, comforting.. All the key elements primal instincts crave.

 

Be proud of who you are, and be proud of being a little different. Who says it's a bad thing? I'd take the road less travelled by. Any day.

 

Furry Regards,

E

[Worker 11811]

I am absolutely with your Point Earendil.

 

If a therapist is trying to push the standard "Man on top, woman on bottom but only in the bedroom" kind of sexual values he should get the brush-off!

 

On the other hand, maybe the guy was trying to push your buttons. Maybe he was TRYING to piss you off! Maybe that's his way of rattling your cage.

 

That's why I said blu dragonfly should go back to the therapist and tell him how upset she was.

 

However, if the guy keeps trying to push values on his clients and he doesn't have a good reason for doing so, he should get the broom.

[Guest]

Something I've commented on before relative to my own sanity.

 

It was coming to this site and finding others who were lovers of fur AND mostly "normal" that was a high point in my life.

 

I first of all realized I wasn't the only one in the world and it didn't take me very long to figure out that most of the folks here were well within what would bbe considered the normal range of behavior if not occasionally very boring

 

Resolving this very longstanding unresolved aspect of my personality has been very liberating in almost every way.

 

Ones sanity is what I've realized is a lifelong project no matter how you look at it. The best we can ever hope to accomplish is to get most of it right most of the time.

 

I consider resolving my feelings over furs in my life to be one of those positive accomplishment moments.

 

OFF

[Worker 11811]

There is one thing we have to remember.

The word "fetsih" is very often misused in popular culture.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fetishism

 

Most people think that a "fetish" means that you are sexually turned-on by some object or idea. The truth is that is a load of "Pop-Psych" bullcrap. The TRUE definition of a fetish is known to psychiatrists as "Paraphilia."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraphilia

 

Here is an important quote from this article:

It is important to distinguish the differences between paraphilial psychopathology and psychologically normative, adult human sexual behaviors, sexual fantasy and sex play, because these terms have historically and terminologically been used in interchangeable manners that are sometimes ambiguous and misconstrued, which can allow for cognitive and clinical diagnostic misjudgment to occur. Consensual adult activities and adult entertainment that may involve some aspects of sexual roleplay, novel, superficial or trivial aspects of sexual fetishism, or may incorporate the use of adult novelties, such as sex toys, are not automatically or by default, inherently psychopathological or paraphilial in nature. Some humans incorporate said adult consensual activity and adult novelty items, such as sex toys, in consensually phantasmal manners to encourage or enhance normative adult sexual fantasy, their overall sexual experience or as a means to promote or enhance sexual foreplay. In this particular context, acting in said consensually phantasmic manners and constructs to gratify normative human sexual fantasy is not automatically or by default indicative of paraphilial psychopathology, and quite conversely, can serve to pique, or excite, the arousal phase of the human sexual response cycle in manners that can enhance fertility and procreation. A statistically significant example of this phenomenon is the ongoing existence and rapid combined economic growth, expansion and success of the adult entertainment and adult novelty (or sex toy) industries, both of which are multi-billion dollar industries that produce and market products and videography involving said consensual adult sex play activities. The exponential lucrative economic successes and successions of these business ventures, including high volume sales and distributions of stated products, gross revenues and profits is in and of itself, evidentiary that humans sometimes incorporate said sex play fantasies and activities in consensual manners that are not psychologically harmful to themselves or to other humans, and hence, are not psychologically paraphilial in nature.

 

(Boldface type added for emphasis.)

 

I will say it again:

 

The true definition of "fetish" or, more accurately, "paraphilia" is when the person feels compelled to commit INAPPROPRIATE sexual acts which are HARMFUL, ILLEGAL or PATENTLY IMMORAL.

 

If you are not doing anything harmful, illegal or immoral you merely have a "kinky" sex preference.

If the sight of a sexually attractive person wearing fur makes you horny, you do not necessarily have a "fetish." It is only when fur "makes you do bad things."

 

If you like fur... If you want to have sex with people wearing fur.... If the thought of people wearing fur makes you horny... YOU ARE A NORMAL PERSON!

 

I wish more people would get this through their freakin' heads!

 

(I'm not yelling at YOU, blu dragonfly. I'm talking to people who don't understand what it really means to have a fetish and who try to force their views on other people.)

[Lil Dragonfly]

Many thanks to everyone who replied I am feeling a bit better now.

 

I am going to tell you all exactly what happened in there. But first, here is the story of my mental illness.

 

I was 14 years old when it all fell apart.

 

High school was no picnic. I have processing problems (a learning disability caused by lack of serotonin in the brain). What this means is that I am slow at completing tasks. It takes me much longer than normal to clean my room, take a shower, do my homework, etc. In this case, the homework was the issue. It took me so long to do my homework that even though I spent all of my time on it, I still couldn't finish it all. Every waking moment was spent working, yet my grades were still Bs. (I don't think that Harvard or MIT would welcome a B student.)

 

In 10th grade my mother pulled me out and had me homeschooled for a year due to illness. I spent the next 6 months sick in bed.

 

There was nothing to do except lie there and think. So think I did.

 

I came up with a clever invention that would protect the endangered spinner dolphin from dying in fishing gear.

 

(I am not going to disclose any more information about that project- this is the internet after all.)

 

My mother enrolled me at a new high school for the following fall. She assumed that by that time my physical ailments would be long gone. But it was a tight squeeze. By the time I finally got better, school was starting.

 

I thought to myself; "There's no chance in hell of me turning the project into reality now. My homework alone always requires more than 24 hours in a day".

 

I started to break down. I was unable to sleep. I pigged out on chocolates. And worst of all, I started hearing voices and seeing things.

 

Ironically enough, my beloved grades slipped to Fs. I was overwhelmed to the point that I couldn't stop crying long enough to do my homework.

 

Fast forward to summer.

 

I was so happy. I finally had time to turn my idea into reality! By the time I went back to school again the project would be done and over with.

 

But my happiness was short-lived. My mother decided to take it upon herself to "help" with the project. (What she actually ended up doing was nothing of the sort.)

 

She became angry, yelling and screaming at me to get things done a little faster. I never got any peace and quiet when I worked; she was pressuring me constantly. It got to the point where I was so frazzled that I needed to get high in order to get anything done. I managed to build a prototype, god knows how many Benadryls that took! I was working on the patent application when I finally crashed and burned, too terrified of my mother to do anything else.

 

(At this point I would like to point out that I am afraid of my mother. This is for 2 reasons. Reason #1 is that while seeing and hearing things I had some experiences of being chased by her, with a gun in her hand. Reason #2 is because she has been physically and verbally abusive to me on and off in real life.)

 

I temporarily abandoned the project, instead devoting all my time to protecting myself from attack. (I was absolutely convinced that she had plans to attack me, and that it could happen at any time.) I would spend all my time leaning my body weight against my bedroom door in an effort to keep her out. (There is no lock on my bedroom door. One time when she kept yelling about how much she hated me I went into my bedroom and locked the door. Ever since that day the locks have been removed.)

 

Over the years, my list of wildlife-related projects grew. And every step of the way, my mother was always there to stop me. She would steal paperwork from my desk and dispose of it in a dumpster an hour's drive from the house. When I was enrolled at a psychiatric treatment center, she instructed the therapist to delete my hard drive. Many valuable projects were lost forever in this way. (I once tried to kill myself by overdosing on Benadryls, and have had memory problems ever since.)

 

It finally got to the point where I am so nervous at home that hearing footsteps in the house startles me enough to make me jump. Anything in my hands falls to the ground, and I lose the ability to turn thoughts into words. I had to tell my friends on the anorexia forum not to expect any intelligent discourse from me until I am in a better living situation.

 

Now, 8 years after I started this horrible journey, things are finally starting to look up.

 

My mother rented me an apartment. (I will be moving in Friday.) The pain is almost over. When I move in I will have total peace and quiet away from my mom to complete as much work as I want. I will be able to focus on the tasks at hand instead of constantly worrying that mom will destroy my intellectual property, yell at me for my imperfections, or put her hands on me and rough me up. I am excited about finally being able to be me.

 

That is my mental illness in a nutshell. Now, on to what my therapist said, and why, considering my story, it was so deeply offensive...

 

He started by saying, "I find it shocking that someone who loves animals as much as you would wear dead ones on your back."

 

I tried to explain to him the various ways fur benefits animals and the environment. He said that I am "gullible" to believe the "lies of the fur industry".

 

He said that watching video footage has proved to him that fur is cruel. I told him that those videos were staged. Of course, he didn't believe me.

 

Then he really started to hurt my feelings.

 

He said that I am naive, and that there are many animal issues that I "know absolutely nothing about". He started talking down to me, treating me like a big baby. He listed many environmental problems that I "never knew about", explaining them as if he were teaching a 5-year old something for the first time. Never mind that I had known about those things for my entire life, and that the majority of the issues he listed I have tried to solve with my projects over the years.

 

He then stated that during the past 8 years (the time period of the story I just wrote) I had made no effort whatsoever to try to do my part to help!!!

 

Let me get this straight. I became anxious, depressed, paranoid, and suicidal due to the guilt of not completing my projects in a timely fashion. It's the very reason I am in therapy today. I fucked myself up over those projects. And he has the nerve to tell me that I have showed no interest in taking some action and really need to change that about myself?!!

 

I just lost it.

 

When he told me that I need to change my ways and start caring about helping the world, I became angry. I yelled that he doesn't understand who the hell I am, or what kind of person I am inside, or why I am so messed up. He would not listen, and just kept talking over me.

 

Apparently he thinks that donating to PETA and emailing his friends photos of the Pacific Garbage Patch makes him more involved in saving the world than I have ever been.

[Guest]

I am so sorry yuou have had such a tortured life. It is unconscionable what has happened to you.

 

You definitely have to get out of THAT one

 

He's bent on perverting you, not curing you. Pure and simple.

 

You are better off without any help than that kind of "help".

 

Do indeed tell him to go F*#k himself and the horse he rode in on.

 

Just because you love furs does not mean you can't love live animals too. I might add that one of the biggest contributors to new wildlife habitats are the hunting and gun clubs and it's not for new hunting territory but a genuine effort to save wildlife from extinction.

 

The primary reason for animal extinction is US! The habitat we consume for our personal consumption.

 

Tell your therapist if he wants to contribute to animal preservation that he should commit suicide.

 

OFF

[White Fox]

Blu....

 

To keep this short I am going to point out two or three things. Have a look at the posts you have posted in this forum. There is nothing to indicate that you have any sort of "Disorder". Your posts have been well thought out, on topic, etc. This should tell you something. Schooling is not always the answer. The kid with the high grades is not always the one to go a long way in the world.

 

Once away from your mom things will improve. However, remember she is still somewhat in control of that place so don't expect miracles. Improvements yep. Big ones possibly. Miracles no.

 

And lastly. Any doctor that would try to force his "Fur is bad" idea on a patient should indeed have his license revoked! Also, if he erased your hard drive, this is even further proof that this guy does not even deserve to be called something as good as "Quack". It is professionals like this who screw up the lives of so many people!

 

Be very careful if you ever are around him again.

 

You deserve better.

 

W

[Worker 11811]

I am sorry to hear about your troubles.

I went through some tough times but not nearly as difficult as yours. From experience, I can tell you that it feels a lot worse when you are working through your problems than it does, afterward, when you look back on your life. Years later, I think about the things I went through and say to myself, "After all that trouble, I came out all right!"

 

I have every confidence that, if you keep working on your problems you will come out all right too!

The Bears are praying for you!

 

Is this therapist you talk to a psychiatrist or a psychologist?

There is a distinct difference between the two.

 

A psychologist is just a person who studied psychology in college and who took some graduate level course work to become certified as a therapist.

 

A psychiatrist is a MEDICAL DOCTOR who took extra training in medical school so that he understands neurological and psychological disorders.

 

Judging by the account of your disorder you gave, I would say that you need to be under the care of a psychiatrist, not a psychologist.

 

In any case, which ever this doctor is he's not a very good one!

Any therapist worth his salt would NEVER do and say the things you have reported here! That would be malpractice!

 

If he really did say those things to you he should be turned in!

 

Let me tell you a story about a therapy session I had.

The doctor asked me what I had been doing during the past week and whether I had taken any drugs. I told him that I had not taken any drugs (the truth) but I said that I "Zoned Out" listening to Pink Floyd. He answered, "Tell me about Pink Floyd."

 

"The band.", I said. "Don't you know who Pink Floyd is?"

 

Long story short, he made me explain all about the band, Pink Floyd and why I liked to listen to them. In the end he explained to me that I was using Pink Floyd as an escapist behavior and he said that it was not healthy for me to listen to them until I learn how to face my problems in life.

 

Notice he did not tell me, "Pink Floyd is bad!"

He did not say that Pink Floyd is music for drug addicts and he did not say that people who listen to Pink Floyd are bad.

 

He told me what his concerns were and he told them to me in a forthright and non-judgmental manner that did not express his opinions about Pink Floyd or their music.

 

If I was your therapist, I would have expressed my concerns to you about your preference for fur because you seem to care about saving animals. I would have asked you why you like fur and I would have probed your feelings about fur.

 

I would have asked you whether fur might lead you to do illegal, immoral or hurtful things and I would have also asked about your sexual feelings toward fur. But, once I determined that you were not doing illegal, immoral or hurtful things, that would have been the end of the discussion.

 

It is okay for him to express his concerns to you but it is NOT okay for him to press his opinions on you!

 

Do you know what I would do if I was you?

 

I would demand a written apology from him. I would demand two copies. One copy should go to you for safekeeping. The other copy should go into your case file.

 

You know that, because you are over 21 years old, you have the right to inspect your case file any time you want. Don't you? You also have the right to have written notes placed into your case file which explain things that occurred while you were under that doctor's care.

 

If you ever inspect your case file and find out that letter is not there, you should take YOUR copy of the letter to your therapist's superiors and report him!

 

Put this joker on notice that he is not to push his opinions on his patients ever again or else you will see to it that he gets into trouble.

 

He has the responsibility to express his concerns about the reasons you like fur but he has NO RIGHT to tell you that fur is bad!

[Mr Barguzin]

Blu

 

Let me apologise firstly for being so anal as to not even read your posts until this arvo.

 

Now, about this Petafile who thinks he is a super computer (knows everything, but programmed by others)............ (yeah, you can use that one on him too *grin*) Is this guy 'appointed' to you via Medical Insurance Company, or was he a free choice, cause if the latter, I'd drop him like a hot potato and potter off to a human.

 

Ya know, I've been to a shrink (female) and she asked me what I was into......... I gave the usual answers.... and she looked at me as if saying "aaaaaaaaaaaand??" so she became the sixth real time person to know of my love of fur. Guess what... no recriminations whatsoever... and that is what a professional should be like. NO RECRIMINATIONS. Keep YOUR (the therapist's) thoughts to yourself. Same applies with Solicitors/lawyers/accountants/shop assistants et al. Offer professional opinions, but nothing personal attacks. Those there to serve don't rip in, they sit back and find ways of turning it around, or seeing nothing greatly wrong with it, just let it flow.

 

This bloke's reaction says a hell of a lot more about his insecurities than it says about you. Hell, Methinks you is the normal bloke and he's the one who's got the REAL problems. Then again, I suppose going to school, Uni and other learning institutions makes one susceptible to others thoughts, no matter how biased or incorrect they may be. He is indeed a well rounded, perfectly formed and educated Super Computer. Non-human life form even.

 

You, my friend (if I may be so bold) are definitely worth knowing, not least for the fact that you likes fur, but also like this planet on which we transients co-habit. More power to you (in the scientific/ideas sense).

[Guest]

Wouldn't be the first shrink to have more problems and issues than his patients

 

OFF

[White Fox]

Mr B, you summed it up better than all of the rest of the typing on this thread!

 

This bloke's reaction says a hell of a lot more about his insecurities than it says about you. Hell, Methinks you is the normal bloke and he's the one who's got the REAL problems.

[FrBrGr]

A good friend of "The Duchess" was telling us about a shrink she went to see. His office was filled with "Beanie Babies" and framed photographs of Barbara Streisand. That was the only time she saw him. She said her session consisted of him "listening" to her for fifteen minutes and him prescribing a med for her to take. No counseling, no questions. Just Beanie Babies, Babs . . . and pills. She said the whole experience weirded her out, and she was in worse shape after seeing him than before she went in. I wonder if your shrink and her shrink are related, or perhaps went to the same school . . . ?