CRYPTO ZOOLOGY

[s1m17]

Mr B,

 

I remember a childrens book about a bunyip.. he was a nice fella, just a bit lonely as there were no other bunyips around. Does the myth make him out to be more terrifying?

[Foxy Lady]

I have heard in New Mexico theres a secret US base full of aliens.

 

Dont laugh. Its true.

 

Mexicans really do exist.

 

FREAKIN' AWESOME!!!

[Mr Barguzin]

Hmmmm would that nah am thinking of "The Magic Pudding" LOL

 

To be honest, i can't give a definitive answer. I suppose that puts him in the same mold as Bigfoot (NOT harry *grin*)

[Fox]

Worker,

 

We're talking about aliens! Not subatomic particles! Sheesh!

 

Ok, where do we start?

 

In an infinite universe with an infinite amount of matter and an infinite number of ways to rearrange that matter over an infinite amount of time, it is a virtual mathematical certainty that extraterrestrial life DOES exist.

 

It's "The Law of Large Numbers"... A.K.A.: "The Infinite Number of Monkeys" problem.

 

Given the infinite size of the universe it's probably not possible that an extraterrestrial race could travel between stars in a finite amount of time without some exotic form of technology. Assuming that THEIR part of the universe is as old as OURS and that we got our start in cosmic life at approximately the same time as they did, it's not likely that such an exotic form of technology could have been developed by an alien race that WE haven't already invented ourselves.

 

Therefore, since WE can't travel to other star systems yet, it's probably true that an alien race could not travel to ours.

 

But, again, since the existence of an extraterrestrial race is postulated on the Law of Large Numbers it IS possible that an alien race could have stumbled on some technology that we don't have and, thereby, WOULD be able to travel to our world.

 

First off, the universe is NOT infinite! It is finite! Uncomprehensibly large, but finite! This is getting more and more experimental varification, mostly via the big bang theory. As our ability to test our theories gets better and better, we're coming to the conclusion that the universe is about 13.7 billion years old. If the universe were infinite, that would mean that we would see light from all directions from all stars at all times of the day and night because the light (from each star) would have an infinite amount of time to reach us. But the sky (at night) is dark, so that immediately tells us that the universe is finite.

 

Now as for "aliens", even if the universe is finite, that could still mean that another intelligent civilization could exist and perhaps be even much further technologically advanced than we are if they had "arrived on the scene" so to speak significantly longer before we did. But going the other way, if we developed sooner and faster than they did, we could be substantially more technologically advanced than they are.

But even if they do exist and are substantially more advanced than we are, the still does not necessitate that we experience their presence in some way, shape or form. It could be as simple as them not wanting to "reach out and touch someone".

 

HOWEVER, if you believe THAT line of reasoning, you have just created a circular arguement and have invalidated the original premise, thereby invalidating all premises that follow.

 

BUT, since we are using a circular arguement, that means that the hypothesis is simultaneously valid AND invalid.

 

THIS means that alien races simultaneously exist AND do NOT exist!

 

If you can't wrap your brain around that, GO ASK SCHRODINGER.

 

NOW... Since we can postulate the existence of space aliens but we can't directly observe them, any attempt to determine if they really DO exist would alter their state of existence and make it impossible for us to determine their true nature... IF they exist at all.

 

This is what I was referring to with my opening statement.

 

THEN... Since we can formulate a question about whether aliens exist... regardless of their true state of existence... they MUST exist because everybody knows that Descartes has already proven, "Cogito ergo sum." ("I think, therefore I am.") If we can THINK about them, do they not exist?

 

Without going through another whole set of bull$hit circular arguements we can simply say, "We THINK that we think aliens exist."

 

 

In short, it's all speculation at this point. We have no physical evidence at this point tell us one thing or another. Although it has been shown that if the "ingredients for life" are present, that shouldn't take too long after that to form the simplest forms of life and beyond. Most biologists, chemists, astronomers, etc. agree that life didn't take too long to start after all the proper ingredients were in place.

 

Personally, I like to think that some other form of intelligent life exists somewhere else in this grandiosity we call a universe. But these are simply my own opinions and beliefs.

I'm always hesitant to use the word "aliens" because with that, people instantly conjure up a mental image of something anywhere from 3 to 6 ft tall, with green skin, and big, black buggy eyes. This is not what I think of when I say "intelligent life". Another life form in the universe could look just about like anything.

Throughout history, there has always been a niche of beings not a part of our world that has always been needed to fill. And right now, unfortunately it's aliens. In previous times (to show you what I'm talking about), it has been Incubus and Succubus (I'm sure you can find these on wikipedia), demons and angels, and in more ancient times it has been the "gods". And in a means to relate these other beings to us, we superimpose on them human characteristics (i.e. mouth, nose, eyes, arms, legs, human behaviors/mannerisms, etc.) when in all reality, it's more likely they look nothing like us. It's simply because it's "what we know" that they look the way they do. It's impossible to conjure up some being that's completely new. Anything that someone conjures up, will have elements of things they've seen/imagined before.

 

Thank you. No applause needed.

 

*Stepping down from soap box*

 

P.S. You all might ask how I can say all of this or why I have any sort of credibility. Well, this is the very thing I'm majoring in, astronomy!

Edited April 7, 2006 by Guest

[Worker 11811]

Anything that someone conjures up, will have elements of things they've seen/imagined before

 

For example, you would not expect to see Inuit artisans carving Chinese dragons out of ivory tusks because China is on the other side of the world from them. They wouldn't have been exposed to the concept of "dragon".

 

Just as Fox pointed out, doesn't anybody think it's strange that many, if not most pictures of extreterrestrials look almost exactly like the one on the cover of Whitley Strieber's book, "Communion"?

 

I must agree that E.T.s probably DO exist but I believe it's extremely unlikely that any of them have ever, or will ever, visit Earth.

[Mr Barguzin]

Coming in late and having skimmed over some posts (sorry Fox *grin*), but as I saw/heard recently on telly, it is not also amzing how the majority of depoictions of extra terrextrials have not disimilar features to ourselves... ie two eyes above a nose above a mouth. There are variations (more eyes or more ears or mouths etc) but some if not most resemble the character from "The Scream" a famous painting.

 

The only truly different extraterrestrial I have 'seen'/heard about were the Triffids in "Day of the Triffids", but they were plant forms.

 

Of course, it could be argued that they (extraterrestrials) have the ability to transform themselves into non-offensive (to our delicate tastes) life forms.

 

only Time and SETI will tell *grin*

 

Ummm Fox... the universe is finite.... but is it not also expanding and therefore not reached the finite point?? WEG

[Guest]

There was a series a few years back [1994-95] called Earth 2.

 

Debrah Farentino and Rebecca Gayheart among others.

 

There were two "Aliens". One was a slobbering [medicinal slobber] half animal half ?? and the "Plant" people.

 

i liked it a lot and it was very creative and well acted. Of course it was cancelled after the first season.

 

OFF

[Fox]

Ummm Fox... the universe is finite.... but is it not also expanding and therefore not reached the finite point?? WEG

 

Yes it is expanding (at least according to current theory). But it will not reach some "finite point" of expansion. (Hopefully this is what you're getting at, if not, feel more than free to correct me). Depending on how much mass is in the universe (essentially how much "stuff") the universe will either expand forever or it will stop expanding and eventually collapse in on itself. Hope this helps.

[Worker 11811]

I like playing it fast and loose with the facts, sometimes, just for fun.

 

Fox, I like it when people like you jump in and say, "No." To me, it's a fun thinking exercise. I really do appreciate your knowledge and your input. It makes me learn.

 

Okay... So, the universe is finite but it is humongous. That takes us from the realm of infinite probablity to "humoungous probablity".

 

Is the universe large enough, full of enough matter and old enough that there is a good probablity that E.T.s exist?

 

I think so.

 

[Fox]

I'm glad you appreciated my post Worker, apparently some people didn't. *cough, cough, Mr. B, cough, cough*

As for E.T., I like to think so too.

[Guest]

Why doesn't ET have three eyes and three legs like Arthur C. Clark might suggest?

 

I think it would have been a bit more plausable but it was written for kids as a cuddly Alien story.

 

OFF

[Fox]

It might. We don't know.

[s1m17]

Wow have a look at this place! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinwalker_Ranch

 

The articles at the bottom are interesting too.

[Fox]

You've got to be kidding me! Dogs being turned into butter? Floating blue orbs? A beast said to resemble the creature in "Predator"? Come on!!!

[s1m17]

It does all sound rather extraordinary and somewhat unbelievable. But so many reports from so many from one place? And quite a big scientific investigation? It's either real, or there is an army of hoaxers there OR everything that has been said is completely untrue and just about everyone there is insane..

[Worker 11811]

Way back in 1965 there were some kids out watching Submarine Races by the beach when they saw a "spaceship" land on the beach in front of them and a "big, hairy creature" came out and "attacked" them in their car. They "barely escaped with their life".

 

The police were called in and even an Air Force officer from Project Blue Book came to investigate. After several days of speculation in the newspapers the incident was ruled "inconclusive" by the Air Force.

 

All throughout the summer there was a rash of "strange sightings" of UFOs and things. Almost all of those UFOs appeared suspiciously close to the airport and spent a lot of time flying in the traffic pattern. But, still they were always reported in the newspapers as "UFO Sightings".

 

A search through the microfilm records of the local newspaper during that summer will reveal some seriously laughable results... Including a car dealer who printed ads with pictures of UFOs and monsters with sayings like "OUT OF THIS WORLD DEALS!"

 

The moral of the story is that this was a case of mass hysteria. A few people with an incredible but incomplete/inconclusive story can set off whole series of events that, on the surface, seem real. But, on closer examination there will be a different truth.

[s1m17]

The variation in the events reported in Skinwalker Ranch seems to make it different from any other UFO sighting hotspots or whatever you call them. The articles at the bottom of that wikipedia page have some reports from the NIDS (National Institute for Discover Science) with photos. The cattle mutilation ones are quite grusome though.

[Guest]

That skinwalker ranch feature in wikepedia is interesting. Thanks

[Worker 11811]

Yes, the article IS interesting but it gives little real information.

 

The best explanation about cattle mutillation that I heard was intimidation from other cattle ranchers in the area. One rancher who steps out of line with the popular opinion of the majority of the cattlemen in the area will start to notice that some of his livestock comes up missing. A little while later the missing cow will turn up in another part of the ranch with its head chopped off and its internal organs removed.

 

The loss of even ONE animal represents a loss of hundreds and even thousands of dollars to a person whose business is raising cattle. The loss of several cattle could break a rancher. Not to mention the intimidation factor!

 

One whose livestock turns up with its head chopped off and its internal organs removed and who knows that other ranchers are doing it ISN'T likely to report it to the police as a crime... The cops may be in cahoots! They are more likely to blame it on some unseen phenomenon... UFOs.