A fairly common game - What is it?

[White Fox]

OK. Once again here, please play by the rules. You spoil the fun if you do a Google search and return with the answer in two minutes. FurlessinCa's question about the Flying Finn reminded me of this. If you know the answer just post it here. You don't need to pm me.

 

There is a game that is less common today than Hockey or Baseball for instance. But everyone here will know it.

 

That game was called "La Croix" by our native friends.

 

Here is the question. Or questions in this case.

 

What is the game "La Croix"? What name do we know it by today? What culture often played it? How many players might play it? How big was the field that they would play it on? And why was it often played?

 

This is one that folks here will find totally unbelievable if they have never heard the answer. You will swear to God that those of us who know it made it up! But we didn't. It is true. (Hint. A Fort in the US once changed hands due to this game.)

[Guest]

Lacrosse! Often called: "The fastest game on two legs."

 

The Native Americans used to play it often (always?) instead of a war or battle. That's why people who play lacrosse almost always say: "Lacrosse: Little Brother to War" which it was. The "games" often times went on for weeks or even months. I can't say how many people played, but I'm sure it ranged into the 100s. The "fields" often were miles long and and wide. When the French priests(?) saw the Native Americans playing the game, they coined the term "La Croix" as the "La Croix" stick looked like the traditional cross/hoop thing (sorry, not religious) that preists or bishops carried (again, not religious). Note: I am including ALL of N. America as the game, as it is called and currently played, originated in Canada. Indeed, if I am not mistaken, Lacrosse is the national sport (pastime) of Canada. This last point did surprise me as I know Canadians are avid hockey players and fans! Darn that gold-medal game!

 

Growing up on the west coast of the U.S. I didn't see lacrosse until I was in grad school at UC Berkeley. I thought it looked like a crazy game. Fast forward to my first faculty postion at Syracuse University (SU) and I quickly learned about lacrosse as the Syracuse University men's team has won about 10 NCAA championships. Indeed SU has a deep history of lacrosse (more on that later). ALL the Powell brothers went to SU. I think they all won national titles, but not sure. What is cool now, I think, is that other schools from other regions are now becoming very competitive. For example Duke (the Duke lacrosse scandal was probably the best thing that could have happened to the sport in the U.S. with regard to bringing it to the limelight...too bad it couldn't come into the limelight on its own merit, it's a GREAT game!), Notre Dame, Denver, Maryland (lost to Virginia in the NCAA championship game this year). Indeed the sport of lacrosse is spreading like a virus across the U.S. I think it is exciting as hell! A cool example of this is that there are kids from San Francisco (Saint Ignatius High School) who are getting scholarships to play lacrosse at big time lacrosse schools in the east (e.g. John Hopkins...always a powerhouse). I just can't wait until lacrosse is a varsity sport at schools like UCLA, U of Oregon, Cal (UC Berkeley...GO BEARS!) and so forth. But I'm not holding my breath on this given the current economic climate. It is very unlikely that athletic departments will ADD new sports to their programs. Indeed Cal cancelled baseball among other sports this past year. Now I'm not a baseball fan, but you CAN'T CANCEL BASEBALL!! It is just too traditional. Alums came through and all canceled sports have been reinstated (women's lacrosse, men's gymnastics, baseball, rugby is remaining as a "club" sport). At any rate, it will be a while before we see varsity lacrosse in western colleges (but I still can't wait).

 

In my son's last year on his JV squad which was a club team (not associated with a school, again popularity is lacking), his team won the state championship! What a run! I actually got to the point that I started to feel sorry for opposing teams. They would win games with scores like 11-0, 14-2 and so forth. I have a picture of two defenders on my son's team sandwiching an offensive player so extremely that the offensive player's feet are about four inches off the ground! One of my favorite all time pictures (and I dig motorcycle racing). I was able to get the girls lacrosse team going when my daughter was high school aged. She played only two years as she liked field hockey better. I was disappointed, but "ya' gotta do what you love". I certainly understand her decision. Both teams are still going strong!

 

I hope this covers most of your questions WF. For those of you who haven't seen a lacrosse game, YOU NEED TO DO IT! The NCAA playoffs are always Memorial Day weekend in the U.S. Also there is a professional lacrosse league trying to gain a foothold in the U.S. That season should be starting up now. I've been to a couple of games in SF. It is exciting has hell!

 

O.K. I have a follow-up question: What famous American football player was not only an All American in football, but also an All American in lacrosse? HINT: He played for SU. He wore the VERY FAMOUS (if you're from SU) number 44 at least for football.

 

My $0.02...HA! More like $10!

[White Fox]

Yep, you got most of them. ANd here I thought this would stump folks and you got it right off.

 

History says that "Hundreds of people" would play on a field at once. And once in a while the field was not 1, not 5, not 10, but 20 miles in length. Now then think of this in comparison to today's athletes. These guys (seldom women) ran back and forth on a field 20 miles in length.

 

There were NO rules. If you got a broken leg that meant you played really hard.

 

The Fort at Mackinac fell when the natives convinced the Brits inside to let them play a game in tribute to them. On the front lawn. Once the ball went into the Fort. Brits allowed one man in to get it. When this happened again, the native women uncovered all of the guns they were hiding and the natives rushed the fort when the doors were opened. And Most Brits were killed if i recall correctly. The Fort fell to the natives.

 

Only one question was not answered. Very often the game was played for one particular reason. There was a certain set of circumstances I guess you would say. And the natives were asked to play to help that circumstance. Many games were played similarly. Anyone know what that reason to play it was?

[White Fox]

I looked and this was one of the only drawings I could find quickly on the net for some reason when I searched.

 

http://fairetymetoys.com/pmwiki.php?n=Main.LacrosseDrawing1

 

Actually often times the rackets looked very similar to the ones we use today.

 

You will notice that on this drawing the goals are actually quite close together.

[Guest]

This is my favorite.

 

I still haven't gotten the hang of inserting a figure... The image is what first appears on the website.

 

I vaguely recall the battle you described. I don't know of special circumstances for playing lacrosse. I thought it was in lieu of war. I also knew several miles. Didn't know 20. I did know that "games" would sometimes go on for weeks.

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://wiki-land.wikispaces.com/file/view/lacrosse.jpg/100818607/lacrosse.jpg&imgrefurl=https://wiki-land.wikispaces.com/lacrosse&usg=___7T4Rvaeq6A7UMf66u5g6v6nH4U=&h=385&w=575&sz=38&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=A-ysKkCaPJDSzM:&tbnh=142&tbnw=188&ei=SFbyTauSIobAsAPMrcWcDQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlacrosse%2Bnative%2Bamericans%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D993%26bih%3D580%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=123&vpy=92&dur=203&hovh=184&hovw=274&tx=176&ty=112&page=1&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&biw=993&bih=580

[Guest]

So do you know who was All American in football AND lacrosse?

[Guest]

I might guess the special circumstances to be a marriage.

[White Fox]

No but you are kind of on the right track. It involves a member of a family.

[White Fox]

I just realized. If you look closely the artwork in your link is actually a close up of an area in the foreground of the artwork in the link I showed. The two are - rather unbelievably the same. But one is blown up and coloured.

[Guest]

Thing one: You're right! That's amazing! I didn't catch that at all. I suppose there is room for artistic interpretation in the colored print as it would be difficult to determine who's who from the line drawing.

 

Thing two: a birth?

 

PS My rex rabbit gloves from MinkgLove came today! WOO HOO!

[White Fox]

First off, glad you have an investment coming. I know that you will enjoy that one!

 

Second. Since you are so close I am going to tell you. Actually it is written on the info in the link you gave me.

 

Often times when a native was very sick he would ask for a game to be played. I am not sure where the belief really came from to do that. Did they believe that the game might drive away evil spirits? Was it that the show of support "upped the spirits" of the sick person? Don't know.

 

However, it is written that usually the sick person would come out and tell tribal members just how much better he felt after the game was played for him. And of course probably he felt just as badly as he did before on the next day. But that is beside the point.

 

There were other games that they would play that way as well too.

 

So there you are. And you pretty much guessed all. You were not exactly right on for the last one but close enough for me to say "Yes". And I thought this one would stump everyone! " title="Applause" /> " title="Applause" />

 

W

[Guest]

I have never heard of that tradition. Some how though it makes sense.

 

You wanted to stump people, but you got a lacrosse geek. I have the book "Lacrosse: Little Brother to War". I need to dig it out!

 

So any insight as to the All American in football as well as lacrosse? Again he went to Syracuse University and wore the number 44. O.K. one more hint: he played professional football for the Cleveland Browns.

 

Jack

[White Fox]

Any guesses on FurlessinCa's challenge there folks?

 

I'm not into football that much so don't know the answer

 

Furless - indeed when you hear of that custom it sounds so strange. But when you think it out there is indeed something there. If you are sick you have many people - perhaps hundreds coming out to wish you well. Yet they do not come in to disturb you. There is a pretty powerful message there.

 

W

[Guest]

O.K. I can't take it any longer. The answer is: Jim Brown. He was an All American in football and lacrosse at Syracuse University. He has actually said he was a better lacrosse player than football player. Pretty scary though as he was an AMAZING football player!

 

If you go to the google link you can see many pictures of Jim Brown. On one of the links from the link (that make sense?) I actually found a short video of Jim Brown playing lacrosse.

 

Enjoy!

 

J

 

PS I forgot to put the link in, so here it is: http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1010&bih=580&q=jim+brown+lacrosse&gbv=2&oq=Jim+Brown&aq=2&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1890l4031l0l9l9l0l1l1l0l281l1561l0.4.4

Edited June 12, 2011 by Guest

[grouchomg]

Without looking at the responses to the original question, the game is lacrosse I think, a popular sport where I live, even at the high school level. (The local "Warriors" are having a dismal season at this sport however.)

 

I believe the Iroquois nations were the ones who came up with it. I recollect that they often played using the heads of victims they captured in raids including Abenakis who once walked the land where I live.

 

I've no idea how large a field they played upon.

 

That's my guess.

[White Fox]

Yep, you are right. Lacrosse - LaCroix. I've not heard some of the grizzly details there, but native history spreads over the continent with a history of thousands of years, so few people get to really understand all or even a portion of it.

 

You will notice when you read through the thread that they would run back and forth on a field as much as 20 miles in length. Shows really how we would probably not be here today if it wasn't for the European diseases we brought etc. It was the diseases that wiped out the native nations. Not the armies. The armies had trouble controlling them when whole towns and villages were sick and dying.

 

I think you will find the thread interesting.

[Guest]

Along the lines of disease, have you read the book "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond? He's a physiologist at UCLA. It is an interesting read. Addresses just the point you bring up as well as resources.