Out time yet????

[auzmink]

A lively thought this one. Is it our time to reverse some of the negative PETA publicity around us by more active involvement?

My reasons for saying this revolve around being part of this community and knowing we have a 'brotherhood/sisterhood' out there and the increasing pro-fur articles in the common press. It truely feels like PETA's hold is slipping.

Last weekend I had the pleasure of walking through Bond Street in London, to be faced with an anti-fur protest outside 'Josephs' I understand similar is happening outside Harrods.

Should I:

a, ignored them

b, given them what for?

c, asked the police to attend as they were 'harrassing me'?

d, ask the forum should a collective response be in order.

 

I am sure some shops have closed because of this harrassment outside their shops. Should we be organising 'Pro-fur' shop protests? Should we send letters of support to these targeted shops? As a group or individually?

 

In other words, do we have a collective voice to move the pro-fur message along?

 

Thoughts appreciated.....

 

Auzmink

[Guest]

Good points Auzmink,

 

The way I see it would be to continually undermine PETA & animal activists & link them with terrorist & extremist activity so with your options I would probably make a call to the police & say they were harassing people, currently there's no need to confront them but a perfect opportunity with the current world politics & new legislation to constantly undermine these people.

 

In the UK alone we have had a few high profile cases of late resulting in 8-10 years imprisonement for the perpetraitors & tougher laws against harassement, all positive steps in my book & not before time.

 

It's not that many people who are actually PRO-FUR it's more like they are getting pissed off with people who tell them what they can & can't do, wearing Fur being one. IMO If PRO-FUR started becoming more active they would draw more negatives than positives as you'd be battling endless cute n cuddley images of Seals being clubbed to death & Foxes been skinned alive, all images that probably would push more people anti-fur than currently so. Fur sales are up because it's the activists that are being hammered by the Law, I'd say smile smugly, undermine them & walk on by, there's more to enjoy in life, it's a shame that the activists don't go after the real problems in the world........

 

I'll end in there I think

[FrBrGr]

Very, very good points, Furelli!

 

I think the key point is to avoid confrontation if possible. Confrontation is not going to get you anywhere with these people. I really like what Furelli said about taking the high road; i.e., be positive about fur and the joy of wearing it. I think you're absolutely correct, too, Furelli, when you said that you think that people are getting sick and tired of the same old blah-blah-blah from these extremist groups.

 

I'll relate an experience I had . . . (Actually, I already did, over in the old forum at Melody, but bear with me, OK?)

 

A furrier came through the Pittsburgh area last fall with one of those "trunk shows" in a large hotel (the Raddisson, I believe). (Naturally, I had to visit - ! 8) ) I was enjoying myself - looking, feeling, wearing, smelling - when this miserable wretch of a woman approached me with a leaflet "educating" me on the evils of fur. I didn't say a word to her. I merely went to the sales people in the front of the room and complained to them that the woman was harrassing me. She followed, protesting that she had the right to be there. I simply remarked that I didn't think so, that I was highly offended at what she was doing, and asked the sales people to please remove her from the room. They gave her the choice of leaving, or they would call security. She left.

[Ravens8]

Wise words Furelli, especially the last paragraph "Pro fur" activism would indeed create more anti furs out there I think. There are still more fluffy bunny brigade out there who at the moment dont have an opinion, but also have never had a fur coat, who would esily be turned towards protecting their fluffy bunnies

 

Didn't harrods stop selling fur years ago? or have they started again.

 

I remember going to a fur fashion show one christmas whch they put on hourly for shoppers. (before they stopped selling). It was an eye popper. There was a huge crush of shoppers to watch it, but we were in the front. It was only on the shop floor so not very big, but they had built a kind of fake icerink cat walk, and the models came out on roller boots ( I think! but it was a long time ago now). My delighfull memory is of these models in skating costumes swirling around in front of me in ahuge assortment of silver fox. coats, jackets, stoles etc. What a memory - very sexy. Did anyone else see it? Must have been back in the late 80's

[Guest]

Its a nice thought but dont kid yourselves.

 

I diont think we should get aggressive, but we need to be positively active in getting our message across.

 

because the majority of people out there dont think too deeply.

If you rest on your laurels what happens is that gradulaly PETA get their message across as nobody says anything dofferent. So the bleating sheep follow.

 

In the UK 9 years ago 80% of the British public wanted a ban on foxhunting.

NOBODY had bothered to get the message across.

 

NOW 70% of the British public want that ban reversed.

 

Thats solely down to relentless but rational and sensible campaigning by the Countryside Allaince.

 

I have had anti women buy fur within a few weeks of just chatting to them.

 

We must be strong and not hide. Fur is eco friendly, and the animals are kept well. native peoples rely on the fur trade to exist. Those are the three simple messages to get across....and we should keep dropping it in everywhere.

 

News stories comments, forums etc etc etc.

 

Then by chatting in pubs, wroting letters to MPS etc.

 

OTHERWISE....and heed my words ...FUR WILL BE BANNED.

Just like Hunting and smoking.

 

The ONE reason it hasnt already been banned in the UK is because of delegations to the UK from the Cree and The Inuit.

 

Now I know that many of us are sensitivem nice people, and we dont like aggression. But believe me we live in dark times. The petit bourgeois will never let up in trying to control their narrow vision of morality. We will have to fight on for a while yet.

 

I hope this is PETA's swansong...but they have huge finacial resources and are backed by dark forces in global industry. They arent going to lie down quietly. We have to commit ourselves to getting out message across.

[Chubby]

I'm with Touch on this one. No need to be agressive (it would be a huge PR mistake) but I think it's important to educate people on the misinformation spread by the AR groups and their terrorist tactis.

 

This story has got me pissed off at the moment.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=9b5e2232-06ca-410b-bb6e-983c0fa7b97a&k=5497

If we say or do nothing we all will lose. As the old saying goes "The squeaky wheel gets the grease".

 

Chubby

[Guest]

Yes...the black bear is classed of least concern in conservation terms according to Wikepdia

 

I heard somehwre that the Gurads bearskins were part iof a treaty with the Cree...but I cant find a net reference to it. Anyone know?

 

I did find this:

www.hunting101.com/biggame/northamerica ... age010.htm

 

that shows that hunting and conservation of bear go hand in hand. threats are...you geussed it our old enemy habitat change...and poaching. NOT genuine hunting. The bears are supplied to the guards as part of a cull.

there is a lot about the Cree and bear earlier ...how they hunt but revere it.

 

They pretty much dosperse themselves black bear...so arent usually a proble. But nobody wants to risk them interfering with much rarer bears so they are culled for that. thats where the guards busbies come from and they onlt take a few a year.

 

If you want to register your complaints here is Ann Widdecombe, the disgarce of a tory mp (she is anti foxhunting too) site;

 

www.annwiddecombemp.com

 

its her motion.

 

You Canadians should definitely go for her. I have already on several occassions.

 

To me its giving in to PETA again. Funny how she will take notice of 200 peta demostratirs but not half a million pro foxhunting ones.

[auzmink]

All excellent comments, but:

1. If we adopt a non-aggressive approach, what is a good option to the walking past the 'ban fur' outside shops demonstration. Should we as a group adopt a standard approach? Should we make a note of which shop is the target, inform on the forum here, and as a collective group write our support to the shop? Should we have a standard 'pat' answer to offer to these individuals (probably of no use). Should we try to enter the shop, and if obstructed / hasseled - inform the police?

2. In respect of poorly moralistic MP's, should we put together an e-mail / letter pack of information / websites for these people to goto or be made aware of? TOS, how can we be sure Anne Widdecombe actually even reads or takes notice of any of your letters? I don't for 1 moment suggest climbing big ben tower, but is the writing to these people effective?

 

I see the group here being a well informed cohort with a lot to offer struggling shops / individuals who are getting hasseled. Witness the support for Lana from the group. Perhaps shops feel no-one is out there on their side and a bit of reassurance from us might make them feel it is worth continuing to stock furs etc?

 

 

Auzmink

[furup]

Hi,

Speaking of Bear skins (the bear skin hat story) In Alaska the game board is allowing the sale of bear hides for both brown and black bears.

THey say that there are 35,000 to 40.000 brown bears, and 100,000 black bears in the state. So they are not in trouble. But at the end the statement is made "Bears are the slowest-breading land mammals we have". I think that bears shoiuld still be used.

 

Furup

[Guest]

You have an excellent idea there Auzmink. Yes...this way is the way to go.

 

I thibnk letteres to mps and to newspapers etc still work...even if its a Johnny Appleseed effect.

 

But support yes.

 

If I had trouble with AR people, and was feeling down...I would have a tremendous moral boost with support.

 

The one thing with this den is That most of us here are highly intelligent, liberal open minded people. We havent been indoctrinated by puerile websites. We have learned as we are going along, some of us have been hunting, seen fur farms. We know the truth. We also know that fur and animal farming and animla land use is being undermined to excuse the most blatant crimes against animal habitats.

 

We know that every single argument of the antis is unethical, based on poor logic, and the result of warped alienation from nature itself.

 

The majoprity of people need the education we can offer as a group.

 

Writing to mps as individuals may even have more power than as a pressure group...lobby groups are easily discredited when politicians want to. Weight of individual and intelligent argument cannot be for long.

 

HOWEVER...as a group...we can act as a support to people. We may need a name for such a support group which covers all of us in a serious manner. Something like "Fur Support Association", and showing we are not industry led but a support group of people with genuine interest in fur fashion and its defence as an eco friendly product.

 

Now some of you may think that we are just trying to justify our interest. I promise you that my first obligation is and will always be to animals and their welfare.

 

What I see is a modern world trying to destroy traditional ways of life based on animlas, and replace them with an unquenchable thrist for profit using non renewable resources.

 

Where I saw foxhunting when I was young, I now see out of town malls.

Where there were vast oceans of (sustainably)hunted)buffalo there are breadbaskets.

where there was tropical rainforest and leopards and apes there is palm oil and coffee.

 

And to justify this, the modernists attempt to say animal use is cruel...while they destroy them for good, and steal their land.

 

And use indigenous peoples as a cheap workforce rather than the proud cultures they were, to undermine our national economies for global industry profit, destroying habitats in the process.

 

We must stand on the barricades on the fur issue. As we did and are doing on the foxhunting issue in the UK. The National Trust is now admitting they need to cull deer with hounds. Three years too late....but they now have been forced to say we were right all along.

 

Here is the cornerstone of our truth:

 

www.icc.gl/index.asp?lang=eng&num=280

 

www.icc.gl/index.asp?lang=eng&num=244

 

Let us stand with them and all the ethical fur producers of the world.

[Ravens8]

Where I saw foxhunting when I was young, I now see out of town malls.

Where there were vast oceans of (sustainably)hunted)buffalo there are breadbaskets.

where there was tropical rainforest and leopards and apes there is palm oil and coffee.

 

And to justify this, the modernists attempt to say animal use is cruel...while they destroy them for good, and steal their land.

 

And use indigenous peoples as a cheap workforce rather than the proud cultures they were, to undermine our national economies for global industry profit, destroying habitats in the process.

 

Touch, what you write is always good, but the above quote from your previous post is the best ever. It should be seared into the minds of all so called modernists and liberalists.

 

Have you included this comment into a letter to Anne Widicombe? If not, then with your permission, I will.

 

[Ravens8]

whoops! - got confused with using the "quote" button - sorry, but you know what I mean

[Guest]

No I didnt...but please do.

 

Under this Government I have seen so much habitat disappear...causing the wiping out of MILLIONS of animals.

 

We have rare animals in the UK like the eagle which WIND POWER is destroying which is on a BBC site at the moment. Shame they cant focus their attention on that...instead of 200 bear a year from a sustainable population of at least 600 000.

 

Look at all the out of town shopping centres they have allowed to be built. Why didnt Widdecombe object to that...instead of having a go at hunting communities which the British government has a long treaty with for bearskins....and who keep the wilderness from development.

 

She is depicable; a true hypocrite.

 

Go for her!!!!